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> Maybe it's because people spend too much time exchanging msgs in forums such as this, instead of having meaningfull exchanges with real people. What does "me

> Maybe it's because people spend too much time exchanging msgs in forums such as this, instead of having meaningfull exchanges with real people. What does "meaningfull" mean? For example, I learn a lot more from fora such as Hacker News, so I'd argue that in-person interactions tend to be less meaningful.

coldtea 7y ago
>What does "meaningfull" mean? Meaningful means more according to several hundred millennia of evolution as social animals that need actual proximity. It means the person on the other end of the conversation will come to your house and help you when you're sad, desperate, sick, and not just be some alias in some other city/country who'll forget all about you just after you've stopped chatting (or give total priority to his real world friends and family). It means common shared friendship building experiences - not just the sharing, via talk, of experiences each had in isolation in a totally different place, in another context. It means having you back and you having theirs, which is rarely if ever the case from people in forums. And a few other things besides.
- mapcars 7y ago
  >the person on the other end of the conversation will come to your house and help you when you're sad, desperate, sick People really have to grow out of this. This is what in my understanding learning being alone exactly is about. Once you are sad, desperate, sick you have to come out of it as quick as possible with what is available to you. It is your responsibility before yourself and the world, like taking shower or brushing your teeth. I say to grow out - because as children most of us learned the trick to pretend sad to get attention and it developed into all sorts of manipulations. When you don't get what you want, for whatever reasons - that is just it, to become sad or joyful is your reaction, it just shows your level of maturity in this world. Children would cry to get attention, grown-ups would keep going. But you can cry for attention only if there are people around you. If you stay alone you will quickly realize all bullshit you are creating and stop it, because anyway it has no effect. In this way being alone is a powerful way to bring one down to reality. And parents use it sometimes when they feel kids are crying to manipulate - they ignore it all-together. This is relevant to I would say 90% of mental issues, of course in case of physical sickness you need to see a doctor, not someone to calm you down, but someone to fix your body.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >People really have to grow out of this. Actually, they should grow to the opposite direction. They're not "rebellious teenagers" who "don't need nobody". And delivery food + home alone, with "relations" mainly on the web is not a lifestyle. That's how you end with this: https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/loneliness-epidemic-consequences https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/loneliness-epidemic-c... https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-loneliness-epidemic-is-so-bad-world-leaders-have-been-forced-to-intervene https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-loneliness-epidemic-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2019/05/03/millennials-and-the-loneliness-epidemic/#59cf3a047676 https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2019/05/03/millennials... And how people end up discovered dead in their apartment for weeks, with nobody caring earlier, and their pets having chewed on them... >Once you are sad, desperate, sick you have to come out of it as quick as possible with what is available to you. It is your responsibility before yourself and the world, like taking shower or brushing your teeth. If you mean people should stop abusing others when they don't need help, sure. If you mean it as stated above, that's as far removed from humanity as possible. Some loner animals, sure, they might do this. We built society and civilisation to do better than that.
    - mapcars 7y ago
      Where exactly in my post you've read about "rebellious teenagers who don't need anybody" or "removed from humanity"?
      - coldtea 7y ago
        The idea that having someone help you when you are "sad, desperate, sick" is something people "really have to grow out of". The rest is like a naive self-help book, heal yourself style. Yes, some people play sad to manipulate others. But it's not like everybody is like some unique snowflake who can't get what they want and use that trick. No, there are tons of actual sadness, sickness, depression (situational and pathological), need, etc out there, and there's nothing wrong in asking or giving help in such cases, in fact, it's what makes us human (or at least social animals, since other social animals will help their own too). People needed help, asked for it, and (sometimes) got it, from friends, community, etc, even back when they survived horrible threats, witnessed (or even fought) in 2-3 wars each, and had self-reliance skills up the wazoo. It's not just the case with unique snowflakes who can't get what they want and throw a tantrum, as implied ("I say to grow out - because as children most of us learned the trick to pretend sad to get attention and it developed into all sorts of manipulations. When you don't get what you want, for whatever reasons - that is just it, to become sad or joyful is your reaction, it just shows your level of maturity in this world.") Let's put it this way: I agree that many people should learn to appreciate being alone, do things for themselves, not bother others for minor stuff and cry wolf, and depend on others for their whims, grow up and mature in this regard, etc. But that's not all the people, all the time. All the people includes totally mature and otherwise self-reliant people, who do need help, assistance, empathy, etc. That's part of being human, not a sole trait of being a parasite to others. Heck, even marines ask for help, depend on each others, and even share their feelings and help cheer up the other - and without those things they'd be far less effective.

coldtea 7y ago

>What does "meaningfull" mean? Meaningful means more according to several hundred millennia of evolution as social animals that need actual proximity. It means the person on the other end of the conversation will come to your house and help you when you're sad, desperate, sick, and not just be some alias in some other city/country who'll forget all about you just after you've stopped chatting (or give total priority to his real world friends and family). It means common shared friendship building experiences - not just the sharing, via talk, of experiences each had in isolation in a totally different place, in another context. It means having you back and you having theirs, which is rarely if ever the case from people in forums. And a few other things besides.

mapcars 7y ago
>the person on the other end of the conversation will come to your house and help you when you're sad, desperate, sick People really have to grow out of this. This is what in my understanding learning being alone exactly is about. Once you are sad, desperate, sick you have to come out of it as quick as possible with what is available to you. It is your responsibility before yourself and the world, like taking shower or brushing your teeth. I say to grow out - because as children most of us learned the trick to pretend sad to get attention and it developed into all sorts of manipulations. When you don't get what you want, for whatever reasons - that is just it, to become sad or joyful is your reaction, it just shows your level of maturity in this world. Children would cry to get attention, grown-ups would keep going. But you can cry for attention only if there are people around you. If you stay alone you will quickly realize all bullshit you are creating and stop it, because anyway it has no effect. In this way being alone is a powerful way to bring one down to reality. And parents use it sometimes when they feel kids are crying to manipulate - they ignore it all-together. This is relevant to I would say 90% of mental issues, of course in case of physical sickness you need to see a doctor, not someone to calm you down, but someone to fix your body.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >People really have to grow out of this. Actually, they should grow to the opposite direction. They're not "rebellious teenagers" who "don't need nobody". And delivery food + home alone, with "relations" mainly on the web is not a lifestyle. That's how you end with this: https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/loneliness-epidemic-consequences https://www.webmd.com/balance/features/loneliness-epidemic-c... https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-loneliness-epidemic-is-so-bad-world-leaders-have-been-forced-to-intervene https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/the-loneliness-epidemic-... https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2019/05/03/millennials-and-the-loneliness-epidemic/#59cf3a047676 https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilhowe/2019/05/03/millennials... And how people end up discovered dead in their apartment for weeks, with nobody caring earlier, and their pets having chewed on them... >Once you are sad, desperate, sick you have to come out of it as quick as possible with what is available to you. It is your responsibility before yourself and the world, like taking shower or brushing your teeth. If you mean people should stop abusing others when they don't need help, sure. If you mean it as stated above, that's as far removed from humanity as possible. Some loner animals, sure, they might do this. We built society and civilisation to do better than that.
  - mapcars 7y ago
    Where exactly in my post you've read about "rebellious teenagers who don't need anybody" or "removed from humanity"?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      The idea that having someone help you when you are "sad, desperate, sick" is something people "really have to grow out of". The rest is like a naive self-help book, heal yourself style. Yes, some people play sad to manipulate others. But it's not like everybody is like some unique snowflake who can't get what they want and use that trick. No, there are tons of actual sadness, sickness, depression (situational and pathological), need, etc out there, and there's nothing wrong in asking or giving help in such cases, in fact, it's what makes us human (or at least social animals, since other social animals will help their own too). People needed help, asked for it, and (sometimes) got it, from friends, community, etc, even back when they survived horrible threats, witnessed (or even fought) in 2-3 wars each, and had self-reliance skills up the wazoo. It's not just the case with unique snowflakes who can't get what they want and throw a tantrum, as implied ("I say to grow out - because as children most of us learned the trick to pretend sad to get attention and it developed into all sorts of manipulations. When you don't get what you want, for whatever reasons - that is just it, to become sad or joyful is your reaction, it just shows your level of maturity in this world.") Let's put it this way: I agree that many people should learn to appreciate being alone, do things for themselves, not bother others for minor stuff and cry wolf, and depend on others for their whims, grow up and mature in this regard, etc. But that's not all the people, all the time. All the people includes totally mature and otherwise self-reliant people, who do need help, assistance, empathy, etc. That's part of being human, not a sole trait of being a parasite to others. Heck, even marines ask for help, depend on each others, and even share their feelings and help cheer up the other - and without those things they'd be far less effective.