5 ms·

Amazon SES — $0.10 per 1000 emails.

by maxmalysh 7y ago

ttul 7y ago
I suspect many tiny senders will just use SES...
cpncrunch 7y ago
Because it's shite. I've blocked SES's IP range on all my servers, as they just ignore spam reports.
- tren 7y ago
  It's not actually SES' responsibility, the sender can use SQS to receive bounceback/spam notifications and act on it.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Responsibility, shemonsibility. I want my e-mails delivered, if SES has a poor IP reputation, it's devalued regardless of whose fault that poor reputation is.
- jcrites 7y ago
  Sorry to hear about that experience. One of SES's primary goals was keeping abuse off of the service, though no system is perfect. When I worked on SES, more than 50% of the team's total time went into fighting abuse. Part of that effort was comprehensive monitoring of a variety of feedback signals, including bounces, spam complaints, and other data. Individual senders are encouraged to monitor their own sending via the Reputation Dashboard and related facilities [1]. SES also monitors these signals, and if it detects signs of abuse, such as elevated bounces or spam complaints, then a sender's ability to send may be paused and the account's activity may be reviewed. FAQ on these processes [2]. Some of the tolerates are quite tight, and can result in action being taken even if much less than a percent of messages are getting these sorts of responses. There's a lot more that I can't describe in a short comment. SES processes and reacts to spam reports sent in standard formats like the Abuse Reporting Format (ARF), and looks at signals like List-Unsubscribe and bounces, etc. But this does require the system to understand the format of the reports used by the feedback loops [3]. Do you happen to know if your feedback loop sent spam complaints in ARF format? If you'd like to discuss further, feel free to reach out to me directly. [1] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/announcing-the-reputation-dashboard/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/announc... [2] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/e-faq.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/e-faq.... [3] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/email-definitions-feedback-loops/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/email-d...
  - cpncrunch 7y ago
    I submitted multiple reports to email-abuse@amazon.com including headers, and received automated responses. For some spammers I reported them 4 times, but the spam kept coming. I think you've confirmed what I said in my parent comment...SES doesn't take a zero tolerance approach. I think it is the shared IPs that I've blocked (54.240.27.189/24). You'll see they are on multiple blacklists.
    - donmcronald 7y ago
      Do you literally block (aka drop) mail from SES IPs? That's awful for your users. If you really distrust mail from those IPs so much, why not just filter it straight to SPAM? At least you'd be delivering it and your users could whitelist senders (or domains) they trust.
      - cpncrunch 7y ago
        My users are: me. I get 100% spam from that ip range. This prevents me wasting my time on this spam.
      - sethammons 7y ago
        I also work in this space. We have many customers who leave email platforms on Amazon because the IP space is polluted. Many inbox providers are extra cautious with email from those IPs because spamming is easy. Even if your IP is not used for spamming, someone else in the same /24 space could be.
        donmcronald 7y ago
        I feel like they could solve that by making people buy-in to shared IP pools where the low volume pricing is a relatively high one time fee. For example, if you want a quota of 100 messages per day, you have to pay a one time fee of $.10 per message to get into the pool, so $10. If you want a quota of 50k messages per day you have to pay a one time fee of $.005 per message, so $250.
nekoashide 7y ago
We looked at SES and it was a no go on reputation alone. We went from a few thousand emails on Mailgun to almost 7 million emails across 140 domains and we have never encountered any reputation issues over the years we have used them. It just works and I suspect this change is to help protect their email reputation.

Amazon SES — $0.10 per 1000 emails.

ttul 7y ago

I suspect many tiny senders will just use SES...

cpncrunch 7y ago

Because it's shite. I've blocked SES's IP range on all my servers, as they just ignore spam reports.

tren 7y ago
It's not actually SES' responsibility, the sender can use SQS to receive bounceback/spam notifications and act on it.
- michaelt 7y ago
  Responsibility, shemonsibility. I want my e-mails delivered, if SES has a poor IP reputation, it's devalued regardless of whose fault that poor reputation is.
jcrites 7y ago
Sorry to hear about that experience. One of SES's primary goals was keeping abuse off of the service, though no system is perfect. When I worked on SES, more than 50% of the team's total time went into fighting abuse. Part of that effort was comprehensive monitoring of a variety of feedback signals, including bounces, spam complaints, and other data. Individual senders are encouraged to monitor their own sending via the Reputation Dashboard and related facilities [1]. SES also monitors these signals, and if it detects signs of abuse, such as elevated bounces or spam complaints, then a sender's ability to send may be paused and the account's activity may be reviewed. FAQ on these processes [2]. Some of the tolerates are quite tight, and can result in action being taken even if much less than a percent of messages are getting these sorts of responses. There's a lot more that I can't describe in a short comment. SES processes and reacts to spam reports sent in standard formats like the Abuse Reporting Format (ARF), and looks at signals like List-Unsubscribe and bounces, etc. But this does require the system to understand the format of the reports used by the feedback loops [3]. Do you happen to know if your feedback loop sent spam complaints in ARF format? If you'd like to discuss further, feel free to reach out to me directly. [1] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/announcing-the-reputation-dashboard/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/announc... [2] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/e-faq.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/e-faq.... [3] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/email-definitions-feedback-loops/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/messaging-and-targeting/email-d...
- cpncrunch 7y ago
  I submitted multiple reports to email-abuse@amazon.com including headers, and received automated responses. For some spammers I reported them 4 times, but the spam kept coming. I think you've confirmed what I said in my parent comment...SES doesn't take a zero tolerance approach. I think it is the shared IPs that I've blocked (54.240.27.189/24). You'll see they are on multiple blacklists.
  - donmcronald 7y ago
    Do you literally block (aka drop) mail from SES IPs? That's awful for your users. If you really distrust mail from those IPs so much, why not just filter it straight to SPAM? At least you'd be delivering it and your users could whitelist senders (or domains) they trust.
    - cpncrunch 7y ago
      My users are: me. I get 100% spam from that ip range. This prevents me wasting my time on this spam.
    - sethammons 7y ago
      I also work in this space. We have many customers who leave email platforms on Amazon because the IP space is polluted. Many inbox providers are extra cautious with email from those IPs because spamming is easy. Even if your IP is not used for spamming, someone else in the same /24 space could be.
      - donmcronald 7y ago
        I feel like they could solve that by making people buy-in to shared IP pools where the low volume pricing is a relatively high one time fee. For example, if you want a quota of 100 messages per day, you have to pay a one time fee of $.10 per message to get into the pool, so $10. If you want a quota of 50k messages per day you have to pay a one time fee of $.005 per message, so $250.

nekoashide 7y ago

We looked at SES and it was a no go on reputation alone. We went from a few thousand emails on Mailgun to almost 7 million emails across 140 domains and we have never encountered any reputation issues over the years we have used them. It just works and I suspect this change is to help protect their email reputation.