11 ms·

I used to be like that, and it was helpful in many ways as I seemed to always be ready for wherever a conversation might go. But I wasn't living in the moment.

I used to be like that, and it was helpful in many ways as I seemed to always be ready for wherever a conversation might go. But I wasn't living in the moment. Now I actively stop myself from simulating the various branches of potential conversations. It feels good to live in the moment (shaking my head a little when I feel it starting helps). The downside is that I don't have as many prepared responses and am more easily caught unaware, so now I rely more on sentences or behaviors that are broadly applicable to buy me time to think about my actual response.

LordFast 7y ago
Why is it a bad thing for your brain to be running DFS all the time? Is it a wasteful use of time? Does it cause behavioral issues? Is it a personal choice? Or...?
- loopz 7y ago
  When you think less you may be open to more possibilities, be more spontaneous and even have some childlike fun. However, others can be taken aback and even suspect ulterior motives, until you harmonize better with others.
  - pazimzadeh 7y ago
    I am surprised that you said others can suspect ulterior motives, because that started happening to me but I can't figure out what the connection is. Can you expand on that?
    - keenmaster 7y ago
      I have learned to be cautious with two very different types of people (this is not a scientific exercise, take with a grain of salt): - One is people who are constantly negative and cast stones everywhere, but offset that negativity with charm. They can accrue a network of Stockholm-esque followers that would say "he's not an asshole, he's actually a really sweet person." When they perceive a threat from you, or they find that you are indifferent to their charm-aura, you can get on their s*list pretty quickly. They can subtly isolate you from their followers, and be as useless as possible if you have to depend on them for anything. If they lash out at you, it's actually not out of character because they lash out at everything. They're just being themselves, right? Much of their venom is hidden behind sardonic humor, which gives them plausible deniability. They are not beholden to social norms, and everyone around you has accepted that. In lieu of social norms, they create impenetrable, arbitrary standards that only they and their followers can meet. - Another type of person I'm initially careful of is someone who doesn't give any "tells." They always go with the flow, and laugh at everyone's jokes. The only overtly interesting thing about them is how social they are (they only open up in trivial ways). They listen very deeply, asking follow-up question after follow-up question, but they're likely to go and spill your secrets over drinks "I heard X said Y....ya I know, interesting." They don't waste an opportunity to gain social currency, spanning all social groups in order to trade between them. They rarely challenge people, and seem above the fray, but they're as political as anyone.
      - loopz 7y ago
        For 1 alot of info on "gaslighting" online. For 2, there needs to be reciprocity and honesty (even silent). We shouldn't regard ourselves as below/above, but may be ingrained and diminishing.
        kaffeemitsahne 7y ago
        Has there been a deflation of the word "gaslighting" recently? I used to understand it as "making person X or others believe person X is crazy (in order to discredit them)" but I see it used much more widely nowadays and I don't really see what it has to do with the scenario in question.
        gowld 7y ago
        "Gaslighting" now means having a different perspective and asserting it's the correct one or a valid one.
        jaxn 7y ago
        Which is inline with making someone feel they are crazy. Making person x second guess their own perspective.
        loopz 7y ago
        Setting different standards for themselves, setting other people up, even boasting of sabotaging others openly, surrounded by gullible and oblivious people, limiting number of marks, snide remarks, running in packs and claiming all authority while victimizing themselves. Gaslighting is rare but part of the toolset.
        kraigie 7y ago
        So if you say the world is flat is the correct perspective and I'm wrong. While I say the world is round is the correct perspective. Are we gas lighting each other?
        7y ago
    - loopz 7y ago
      People mostly prefer "their own kind", at least until they truly get to know you. Solving fatigue by being recluse starves crucial human contact. For many reasons there can remain barriers before getting meaningful contact. Your question itself points to this preference and yearning, and not indifference. A different mode of mind will be received by others differently, as an experience. To get anywhere we must move, but to others this might be deemed too uncomfortable or even mistaken as implicit criticism. As social creatures we must have/find support around us. This works as platform and mandate, so helps true leaders lead.
    - LordFast 7y ago
      Book I found enjoyable and valuable, especially given today's environment of deteriorating social trust: https://www.amazon.com/Talking-Strangers-Should-About-People/dp/B07NJCG1XS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14UX9EZKW6Q3M&keywords=malcolm+gladwell+talking+to+strangers&qid=1580427600&sprefix=malcolm+gladwell%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Talking-Strangers-Should-About-People... Gist: don't think too much, it's gonna be okay.
  - bananamerica 7y ago
    Thinking less can be advantageous for situations that welcome spontaneity, thinking more is very useful for all the others.
    - collyw 7y ago
      > thinking more is very useful for all the others. Is it? Buddhist monks would likely disagree with you.
      - YinglingLight 7y ago
        Contrary to popular belief, not all types of meditation is about 'not thinking'.
      - bananamerica 7y ago
        Buddhist monks usually live in monasteries. And the ones that don't live a very different life than most people.
    - crucialfelix 7y ago
      Spontaneity is also thinking. There are two distinct modes of thought. Verbal/abstract and real-time/intuition. These have neurological foundations in the two hemispheres. The right is more highly connected. The left has more to do with speech and rumination.
      - bananamerica 7y ago
        I was obviously referring to the thinking involved in making plans beforehand.
- pazimzadeh 7y ago
  I think it's a question of balance. I was too far on the side of not living in the moment, and spending lots of time on what-if scenarios. I think that I might have veered too far to the other extreme now, and my capacity for empathy is suffering a little.
  - LordFast 7y ago
    Thanks for answering. Makes sense to me.
    - yomly 7y ago
      I've also noticed that people who over invest in their ability to prepare tend to be people who struggle under pressure or to adapt in the moment. Everything in moderation I guess
      - mahalol 7y ago
        I can comment on this for my wife who suffers from anxiety. She is very good at planning because she needs to feel in control all the time. You are right that when things don't go as planned and the pressure ramps up she loses her control and makes poor decisions or no decision at all. It's interesting to me as I am on the opposite side for most of the time.
    - ludston 7y ago
      This "Living in the moment" stuff has depth such that many books have been written on it. It is one of the premises of mindfulness meditation, and Buddhism thoroughly explores this. The summary is that you will be more satisfied if you are not continuously ruminating on the past, or anxiously anticipating future problems, but instead focus on your immediate happiness. e.g. Right now you are comfortable, not in any pain and surrounded by interesting things. Enjoy this, and don't worry about some conversation you might be having later.
      - jaxn 7y ago
        Living in the moment is somewhat counter to striving. It's hard (maybe impossible?) to be a builder and a creator without spending some time ruminating on the last and future.
- hnick 7y ago
  For me personally it seems to make it impossible to get to sleep. Which makes me tired, and less resistant to rambling trains of thought. Repeat ad infinitum.
  - gscott 7y ago
    Try to get on a low dosage of Clonidine it is very cheap and it puts me out to sleep right away and it has been around for awhile, very safe.
    - nprateem 7y ago
      Some people find 1 or 2 drops of lavendar oil on a hanky by their pillow relaxing.
  - tempestn 7y ago
    I don't usually have this issue, but when I do I find just focusing on breath, meditation style, helps. As soon as you notice yourself thinking, acknowledge the thought gently, and then let it go. At least for me (with a bit of practice) this can head off any thoughts before they can get started, and eventually allow things to quiet down.
    - tripzilch 7y ago
      Also, acknowledging the fact that, since I'm in bed trying to sleep, I can't act on these thoughts right now anyway, so I don't really need to have them right now (and trusting that if it's important, they will probably come up again at a more useful moment).
  - sudoaza 7y ago
    Have had this issue sometimes, specially when ruminating about a discussion or whatever. What i often do in those cases is going into visual mode. For me I imagine having big long wings and catching the wind from some high mountain descending flying slowly, trying to surround the mountain and checking the views. It's something soothing and takes the attention away from the internal monologe. Though you can fall back to it and when you notice go back to visual. I also note that there is like two visual modes, one less defined, more controlled by my will, and one more realistic and crowded with details mostly out of my control.
- gowld 7y ago
  Poster said BFS, which is good, because DFS is probably a massive waste of effort that mispredicts reality (but is a more immersive daydream).
  - siliconunit 7y ago
    I found that in my late 30ies I shifted from an exhausting DFS to a BFS mode....and it has surely helped in tackling social and work complexities better. I have also discovered that I was unconsciously not giving my full attention to details ,especially over math/programming problems, I was always in a state of slight 'haze', but the whole thing was extremely well played by the brain...I really thought I was fully concentrated and paying complete attention, but only now I know that I can step to a deeper level, where I play back and forth multiple variables and remember better the connectivity of the problem. A decent analogy would be if you play piano and are going through a challenging part, your hands and mind are fully focused on the movements but doing so makes everything hard and stiff, and eventually you run out of steam very fast, with experience though you learn to microfocus on some parts and keep it loose on others...etc. seems fitting..
- ahi 7y ago
  I think it's the personal/interpersonal version of "real artists ship". I am one of those people that spends too much time in his head. It's mostly wasted energy if I never pause and let the thoughts out.
- AlexCoventry 7y ago
  What's DFS? When I look closely at those sorts of imagined conversations, I almost always conclude that my attention has been misdirected by delusional egotism. I also find that letting them run tends to entrench the delusions, which I am better off without.
  - lostcolony 7y ago
    Depth first search. Basically he's saying you're playing out each conversation to the end, then backing up to the last branch point and chasing it to the end, repeat until you've exhausted every possibility you can think of
    - AlexCoventry 7y ago
      Oh. That almost never works IME, though.
      - yetihehe 7y ago
        In my experience it typically doesn't work, but sometimes it can work and is good to keep your mind busy IF you have some free time. It's just rehearsing, essentially what dreams are, but in daytime and more controlled.
        lostcolony 7y ago
        It doesn't work in the sense of predicting the conversation, but do it long enough, or, do it with iterative deepening, and even though you probably won't nail the specifics of how the conversation goes, it WILL frequently prepare you in broad strokes such that the actual conversation's twists and turns won't throw you, even if they do surprise you.
bananamerica 7y ago
On the other hand, it is so satisfying when a conversation hits a branch you worked on for hours on end! Very useful for dating and job interviews. Especially for people with foot-in-mouth disease[1] [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  As a man with Aspergers, that sounds so useful.. and while I can often simulate conversations in my head, real-world conversations with real people almost never play out the same way. It probably has to do with having little ability to intuitively understand what other people would think.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    Maybe but it's also very hard to predict what will happen in general I think.
  - rocgf 7y ago
    From my experience, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that you can't really surprise yourself. In the conversation in your head, you try to always be the 'winner' of the debuate, and part of that is to try and come up with remarks from your 'opponent' for which you have gotcha replies. Except you know what your 'opponent' is going to say because that's you. In real life, the opponent is someone else and they may surprise you.
    - summerdown2 7y ago
      Interesting. I tend to think you can surprise yourself. I write stories as a hobby, and my characters often surprise me. I'd say it's down to two things: a) Having to imagine a different personality's perspective, and b) Having some time to think of a better answer than the off-the-cuff one. Point a tends to happen whenever I make an effort to see the world from someone else's point of view, or make up an imaginary character to have a conversation with. Point b tends to happen in my own head when I get quiet time - like during a long walk or shower and a thought I'd never imagined before comes up. It can have some predictive power, too. Imagine, for example, there's an important negotiation coming up. You'll be sitting on one side of the table wanting the things you want. It does help to put yourself in the opposite seat mentally, thinking about what they want to get, and how you'd go about trying to get it. Maybe even trying on for size the best arguments you might make for their position.
okareaman 7y ago
That sounds like hell to me. I don't have an internal monolog. I think in visuals. I am a quiet person. I am a better programmer for it I think. I visualize the structure of a program I am writing and pair programming would also be hell for me.
- timlarshanson 7y ago
  Agreed. As I've grown older, I spend less time running tight verbal loops in my mind, and more time examining things visually. It seems more externally-oriented, and allows for better sleep.
- JohnBerea 7y ago
  It's not necessarily either-or. I have an internal monologue for most things but much of my math and programming thoughts are conceptual.
  - yetihehe 7y ago
    The same for me. Also I have that internal monologue, but it feels like it's just me talking and it's not constant chatter, I can just not talk inside if I don't want to.
- not_kurt_godel 7y ago
  I definitely am capable of thinking non-verbally, and I agree it can help with programming. But I just can't wrap my head around not having an internal monologue at all. How did you even write this comment? What was the process that led you to put together this particular series of words, if not 'hearing' them in your own mind as an expression of your thoughts first? Edit: Thinking on this more, I may not have had an internal monologue when I was younger. I recall when I was maybe 11 or 12, I had a sudden, distinct moment of increased self-awareness, after which my internal monologue became my predominant mode of thinking. My first thought was that all of my mental activity up till that time had been in a fog, and that I really hadn't even been a fully conscious being. I crossed some kind of cognitive rubicon which my previous self couldn't even understand. I assumed this was a normal phase of mental development at the time, but now I'm curious if others have had similar experiences.
aaimnr 7y ago
Your mention about shaking your head is very interesting. How did you come up with that? Are you aware of Peter Levine's or David Berceli's work on shaking/trembling as a natural stress-releasing mammallian instinct that people are usually repressing?
_def 7y ago
In the last couple of years I started thinking about this and since then I'm trying to live in the moment because now I'm aware of how much time I spend in my head. It is very hard for me to train this though.
notSupplied 7y ago
The worst is when I accidentally sub-verbalize a speculatively executed conversation branch, leaking information I didn't intend to.

LordFast 7y ago

Why is it a bad thing for your brain to be running DFS all the time? Is it a wasteful use of time? Does it cause behavioral issues? Is it a personal choice? Or...?

loopz 7y ago
When you think less you may be open to more possibilities, be more spontaneous and even have some childlike fun. However, others can be taken aback and even suspect ulterior motives, until you harmonize better with others.
- pazimzadeh 7y ago
  I am surprised that you said others can suspect ulterior motives, because that started happening to me but I can't figure out what the connection is. Can you expand on that?
  - keenmaster 7y ago
    I have learned to be cautious with two very different types of people (this is not a scientific exercise, take with a grain of salt): - One is people who are constantly negative and cast stones everywhere, but offset that negativity with charm. They can accrue a network of Stockholm-esque followers that would say "he's not an asshole, he's actually a really sweet person." When they perceive a threat from you, or they find that you are indifferent to their charm-aura, you can get on their s*list pretty quickly. They can subtly isolate you from their followers, and be as useless as possible if you have to depend on them for anything. If they lash out at you, it's actually not out of character because they lash out at everything. They're just being themselves, right? Much of their venom is hidden behind sardonic humor, which gives them plausible deniability. They are not beholden to social norms, and everyone around you has accepted that. In lieu of social norms, they create impenetrable, arbitrary standards that only they and their followers can meet. - Another type of person I'm initially careful of is someone who doesn't give any "tells." They always go with the flow, and laugh at everyone's jokes. The only overtly interesting thing about them is how social they are (they only open up in trivial ways). They listen very deeply, asking follow-up question after follow-up question, but they're likely to go and spill your secrets over drinks "I heard X said Y....ya I know, interesting." They don't waste an opportunity to gain social currency, spanning all social groups in order to trade between them. They rarely challenge people, and seem above the fray, but they're as political as anyone.
    - loopz 7y ago
      For 1 alot of info on "gaslighting" online. For 2, there needs to be reciprocity and honesty (even silent). We shouldn't regard ourselves as below/above, but may be ingrained and diminishing.
      - kaffeemitsahne 7y ago
        Has there been a deflation of the word "gaslighting" recently? I used to understand it as "making person X or others believe person X is crazy (in order to discredit them)" but I see it used much more widely nowadays and I don't really see what it has to do with the scenario in question.
        gowld 7y ago
        "Gaslighting" now means having a different perspective and asserting it's the correct one or a valid one.
        jaxn 7y ago
        Which is inline with making someone feel they are crazy. Making person x second guess their own perspective.
        loopz 7y ago
        Setting different standards for themselves, setting other people up, even boasting of sabotaging others openly, surrounded by gullible and oblivious people, limiting number of marks, snide remarks, running in packs and claiming all authority while victimizing themselves. Gaslighting is rare but part of the toolset.
        kraigie 7y ago
        So if you say the world is flat is the correct perspective and I'm wrong. While I say the world is round is the correct perspective. Are we gas lighting each other?
        7y ago
  - loopz 7y ago
    People mostly prefer "their own kind", at least until they truly get to know you. Solving fatigue by being recluse starves crucial human contact. For many reasons there can remain barriers before getting meaningful contact. Your question itself points to this preference and yearning, and not indifference. A different mode of mind will be received by others differently, as an experience. To get anywhere we must move, but to others this might be deemed too uncomfortable or even mistaken as implicit criticism. As social creatures we must have/find support around us. This works as platform and mandate, so helps true leaders lead.
  - LordFast 7y ago
    Book I found enjoyable and valuable, especially given today's environment of deteriorating social trust: https://www.amazon.com/Talking-Strangers-Should-About-People/dp/B07NJCG1XS/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14UX9EZKW6Q3M&keywords=malcolm+gladwell+talking+to+strangers&qid=1580427600&sprefix=malcolm+gladwell%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-1 https://www.amazon.com/Talking-Strangers-Should-About-People... Gist: don't think too much, it's gonna be okay.
- bananamerica 7y ago
  Thinking less can be advantageous for situations that welcome spontaneity, thinking more is very useful for all the others.
  - collyw 7y ago
    > thinking more is very useful for all the others. Is it? Buddhist monks would likely disagree with you.
    - YinglingLight 7y ago
      Contrary to popular belief, not all types of meditation is about 'not thinking'.
    - bananamerica 7y ago
      Buddhist monks usually live in monasteries. And the ones that don't live a very different life than most people.
  - crucialfelix 7y ago
    Spontaneity is also thinking. There are two distinct modes of thought. Verbal/abstract and real-time/intuition. These have neurological foundations in the two hemispheres. The right is more highly connected. The left has more to do with speech and rumination.
    - bananamerica 7y ago
      I was obviously referring to the thinking involved in making plans beforehand.
pazimzadeh 7y ago
I think it's a question of balance. I was too far on the side of not living in the moment, and spending lots of time on what-if scenarios. I think that I might have veered too far to the other extreme now, and my capacity for empathy is suffering a little.
- LordFast 7y ago
  Thanks for answering. Makes sense to me.
  - yomly 7y ago
    I've also noticed that people who over invest in their ability to prepare tend to be people who struggle under pressure or to adapt in the moment. Everything in moderation I guess
    - mahalol 7y ago
      I can comment on this for my wife who suffers from anxiety. She is very good at planning because she needs to feel in control all the time. You are right that when things don't go as planned and the pressure ramps up she loses her control and makes poor decisions or no decision at all. It's interesting to me as I am on the opposite side for most of the time.
  - ludston 7y ago
    This "Living in the moment" stuff has depth such that many books have been written on it. It is one of the premises of mindfulness meditation, and Buddhism thoroughly explores this. The summary is that you will be more satisfied if you are not continuously ruminating on the past, or anxiously anticipating future problems, but instead focus on your immediate happiness. e.g. Right now you are comfortable, not in any pain and surrounded by interesting things. Enjoy this, and don't worry about some conversation you might be having later.
    - jaxn 7y ago
      Living in the moment is somewhat counter to striving. It's hard (maybe impossible?) to be a builder and a creator without spending some time ruminating on the last and future.
hnick 7y ago
For me personally it seems to make it impossible to get to sleep. Which makes me tired, and less resistant to rambling trains of thought. Repeat ad infinitum.
- gscott 7y ago
  Try to get on a low dosage of Clonidine it is very cheap and it puts me out to sleep right away and it has been around for awhile, very safe.
  - nprateem 7y ago
    Some people find 1 or 2 drops of lavendar oil on a hanky by their pillow relaxing.
- tempestn 7y ago
  I don't usually have this issue, but when I do I find just focusing on breath, meditation style, helps. As soon as you notice yourself thinking, acknowledge the thought gently, and then let it go. At least for me (with a bit of practice) this can head off any thoughts before they can get started, and eventually allow things to quiet down.
  - tripzilch 7y ago
    Also, acknowledging the fact that, since I'm in bed trying to sleep, I can't act on these thoughts right now anyway, so I don't really need to have them right now (and trusting that if it's important, they will probably come up again at a more useful moment).
- sudoaza 7y ago
  Have had this issue sometimes, specially when ruminating about a discussion or whatever. What i often do in those cases is going into visual mode. For me I imagine having big long wings and catching the wind from some high mountain descending flying slowly, trying to surround the mountain and checking the views. It's something soothing and takes the attention away from the internal monologe. Though you can fall back to it and when you notice go back to visual. I also note that there is like two visual modes, one less defined, more controlled by my will, and one more realistic and crowded with details mostly out of my control.
gowld 7y ago
Poster said BFS, which is good, because DFS is probably a massive waste of effort that mispredicts reality (but is a more immersive daydream).
- siliconunit 7y ago
  I found that in my late 30ies I shifted from an exhausting DFS to a BFS mode....and it has surely helped in tackling social and work complexities better. I have also discovered that I was unconsciously not giving my full attention to details ,especially over math/programming problems, I was always in a state of slight 'haze', but the whole thing was extremely well played by the brain...I really thought I was fully concentrated and paying complete attention, but only now I know that I can step to a deeper level, where I play back and forth multiple variables and remember better the connectivity of the problem. A decent analogy would be if you play piano and are going through a challenging part, your hands and mind are fully focused on the movements but doing so makes everything hard and stiff, and eventually you run out of steam very fast, with experience though you learn to microfocus on some parts and keep it loose on others...etc. seems fitting..
ahi 7y ago
I think it's the personal/interpersonal version of "real artists ship". I am one of those people that spends too much time in his head. It's mostly wasted energy if I never pause and let the thoughts out.
AlexCoventry 7y ago
What's DFS? When I look closely at those sorts of imagined conversations, I almost always conclude that my attention has been misdirected by delusional egotism. I also find that letting them run tends to entrench the delusions, which I am better off without.
- lostcolony 7y ago
  Depth first search. Basically he's saying you're playing out each conversation to the end, then backing up to the last branch point and chasing it to the end, repeat until you've exhausted every possibility you can think of
  - AlexCoventry 7y ago
    Oh. That almost never works IME, though.
    - yetihehe 7y ago
      In my experience it typically doesn't work, but sometimes it can work and is good to keep your mind busy IF you have some free time. It's just rehearsing, essentially what dreams are, but in daytime and more controlled.
      - lostcolony 7y ago
        It doesn't work in the sense of predicting the conversation, but do it long enough, or, do it with iterative deepening, and even though you probably won't nail the specifics of how the conversation goes, it WILL frequently prepare you in broad strokes such that the actual conversation's twists and turns won't throw you, even if they do surprise you.

bananamerica 7y ago

On the other hand, it is so satisfying when a conversation hits a branch you worked on for hours on end! Very useful for dating and job interviews. Especially for people with foot-in-mouth disease[1] [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot-in-mouth_disease

TimTheTinker 7y ago
As a man with Aspergers, that sounds so useful.. and while I can often simulate conversations in my head, real-world conversations with real people almost never play out the same way. It probably has to do with having little ability to intuitively understand what other people would think.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Maybe but it's also very hard to predict what will happen in general I think.
- rocgf 7y ago
  From my experience, I think a lot of it is due to the fact that you can't really surprise yourself. In the conversation in your head, you try to always be the 'winner' of the debuate, and part of that is to try and come up with remarks from your 'opponent' for which you have gotcha replies. Except you know what your 'opponent' is going to say because that's you. In real life, the opponent is someone else and they may surprise you.
  - summerdown2 7y ago
    Interesting. I tend to think you can surprise yourself. I write stories as a hobby, and my characters often surprise me. I'd say it's down to two things: a) Having to imagine a different personality's perspective, and b) Having some time to think of a better answer than the off-the-cuff one. Point a tends to happen whenever I make an effort to see the world from someone else's point of view, or make up an imaginary character to have a conversation with. Point b tends to happen in my own head when I get quiet time - like during a long walk or shower and a thought I'd never imagined before comes up. It can have some predictive power, too. Imagine, for example, there's an important negotiation coming up. You'll be sitting on one side of the table wanting the things you want. It does help to put yourself in the opposite seat mentally, thinking about what they want to get, and how you'd go about trying to get it. Maybe even trying on for size the best arguments you might make for their position.

okareaman 7y ago

That sounds like hell to me. I don't have an internal monolog. I think in visuals. I am a quiet person. I am a better programmer for it I think. I visualize the structure of a program I am writing and pair programming would also be hell for me.

timlarshanson 7y ago
Agreed. As I've grown older, I spend less time running tight verbal loops in my mind, and more time examining things visually. It seems more externally-oriented, and allows for better sleep.
JohnBerea 7y ago
It's not necessarily either-or. I have an internal monologue for most things but much of my math and programming thoughts are conceptual.
- yetihehe 7y ago
  The same for me. Also I have that internal monologue, but it feels like it's just me talking and it's not constant chatter, I can just not talk inside if I don't want to.
not_kurt_godel 7y ago
I definitely am capable of thinking non-verbally, and I agree it can help with programming. But I just can't wrap my head around not having an internal monologue at all. How did you even write this comment? What was the process that led you to put together this particular series of words, if not 'hearing' them in your own mind as an expression of your thoughts first? Edit: Thinking on this more, I may not have had an internal monologue when I was younger. I recall when I was maybe 11 or 12, I had a sudden, distinct moment of increased self-awareness, after which my internal monologue became my predominant mode of thinking. My first thought was that all of my mental activity up till that time had been in a fog, and that I really hadn't even been a fully conscious being. I crossed some kind of cognitive rubicon which my previous self couldn't even understand. I assumed this was a normal phase of mental development at the time, but now I'm curious if others have had similar experiences.

aaimnr 7y ago

Your mention about shaking your head is very interesting. How did you come up with that? Are you aware of Peter Levine's or David Berceli's work on shaking/trembling as a natural stress-releasing mammallian instinct that people are usually repressing?

_def 7y ago

In the last couple of years I started thinking about this and since then I'm trying to live in the moment because now I'm aware of how much time I spend in my head. It is very hard for me to train this though.

notSupplied 7y ago

The worst is when I accidentally sub-verbalize a speculatively executed conversation branch, leaking information I didn't intend to.