5 ms·

Stupid question: is it possible that hygiene practices contribute to outbreaks like this? I remember reading or hearing that one input to recent wildfires was

Stupid question: is it possible that hygiene practices contribute to outbreaks like this? I remember reading or hearing that one input to recent wildfires was the fact that decades of controlled burns to limit the spread of wildfires left a lot of available fuel that otherwise would have burned naturally. So in that vein, do we have humans with compromised immunity thriving but susceptible to inter-species mutations like this novel coronavirus?

slumdev 7y ago
Hygiene practices can prevent the spread of diseases like this. Wash your hands, don't touch your face, etc. Wear a surgical mask and limit interactions with others if you're sick. But this virus spreads via droplet transmission, so just being within 6 feet of someone who's infected (and coughs/sneezes) is enough to spread it. If you're referring to the overuse of hand sanitizer and other disinfectant agents, it might be reasonable to conjecture that their use contributes to the spread of pathogenic bacteria because they destroy non-pathogenic bacteria that could out-compete the pathogenic ones for resources. But this is a virus. It doesn't reproduce outside the body, so I don't think that train of thought applies here.
- wyldfire 7y ago
  > If you're referring to the overuse of hand sanitizer and other disinfectant agents I'm thinking more generally: I was thinking along these lines because the news report I heard [1] described 'wet markets' as a place where disease spread. I'd never heard of it before. But it occurred to me that centuries ago, this kind of thing might have been more common. Processes and regulations for handling of animal products are a net benefit but I wonder if there are any drawbacks. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29/800725826/why-wet-markets-are-the-perfect-place-to-spread-disease https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29/800725826/why-wet-markets-are...
  - Symmetry 7y ago
    Oh, eating of bushmeat is certainly how this made the jump from bats to humans in the first place. But it doesn't really have anything to do with its spread among humans.
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  "But this virus spreads via droplet transmission, so just being within 6 feet of someone who's infected (and coughs/sneezes) is enough to spread it." On the other hand, people don't seem to be symptomatic for 2 weeks, so they won't be coughing or sneezing during that time, so ordinary hygiene should be enough to prevent most infections during the incubation period. After people do become symptomatic, the widespread media attention and fear among the general public will likely cause them to go to the hospital or isolate themselves from each other, which should further reduce infections.
  - slumdev 7y ago
    It would make sense that risk is lower before symptoms appear, but it's still there. Everybody sneezes occasionally, coughs to clear their throat, etc. Smokers more so.
akiselev 7y ago
I think you're remembering the fire bit backwards. A lack of controlled burns due to discontinuation of indigenous practices and budget cuts combined with increased fire fighting (preventing natural burns) caused fuel to build up in forests that would have burned away in smaller fires. Many plants in Australia are actually adapted to frequent fires like the eucalyptus tree whose oils ignite during fires to wipe out all competitors near their seeds, which also require fire to germinate. Because of the intensity of the fires this year, it became too hot for many of those species and they now wont be able to reestablish. A similar problem developed in California due to overzealous fire fighting that built up the forest floor over decades and led to some devastating fires.
- wyldfire 7y ago
  > I think you're remembering the fire bit backwards. A lack of controlled burns due to discontinuation of indigenous practices and budget cuts combined with increased fire fighting (preventing natural burns) caused fuel to build up in forests that would have burned away in smaller fires. Yes, my mistake, that's probably it.
- cyphar 7y ago
  In Australia, a larger factor is that cotton farmers have literally been stealing water from the Murray-Darling catchment system, resulting in the entire bush becoming much drier for the past decade.
  - Gustomaximus 7y ago
    Do you have any source for that? Cotton farms have taken significant flow and effected the river itself. But I've not seen anything that links these farms to the bush around the region.
    - cyphar 7y ago
      The Murray-Darling river system covers most of NSW and Victoria, so it's not hard to intuit that a drier river system will result in drier conditions in NSW and Victoria. I don't have a source which says "the fires were predominantly caused by the drying of the river system", but given the geography it seems more unlikely (at least to me) that it didn't have a significant impact.
Geee 7y ago
Somewhat. However, the virus is a novel mutation, which means that even if we exposed ourselves to other similar viruses at younger age, it wouldn't help. At least that's my understanding. On evolutionary timescales, it's better to expose whole population from time to time, so that we don't lose the immune system response against these altogether.
Grue3 7y ago
Back when we didn't have good hygiene, we had Spanish Flu and Black Plague. It's hard to imagine such massive outbreaks these days in developed countries.

slumdev 7y ago

Hygiene practices can prevent the spread of diseases like this. Wash your hands, don't touch your face, etc. Wear a surgical mask and limit interactions with others if you're sick. But this virus spreads via droplet transmission, so just being within 6 feet of someone who's infected (and coughs/sneezes) is enough to spread it. If you're referring to the overuse of hand sanitizer and other disinfectant agents, it might be reasonable to conjecture that their use contributes to the spread of pathogenic bacteria because they destroy non-pathogenic bacteria that could out-compete the pathogenic ones for resources. But this is a virus. It doesn't reproduce outside the body, so I don't think that train of thought applies here.

wyldfire 7y ago
> If you're referring to the overuse of hand sanitizer and other disinfectant agents I'm thinking more generally: I was thinking along these lines because the news report I heard [1] described 'wet markets' as a place where disease spread. I'd never heard of it before. But it occurred to me that centuries ago, this kind of thing might have been more common. Processes and regulations for handling of animal products are a net benefit but I wonder if there are any drawbacks. [1] https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29/800725826/why-wet-markets-are-the-perfect-place-to-spread-disease https://www.npr.org/2020/01/29/800725826/why-wet-markets-are...
- Symmetry 7y ago
  Oh, eating of bushmeat is certainly how this made the jump from bats to humans in the first place. But it doesn't really have anything to do with its spread among humans.
pmoriarty 7y ago
"But this virus spreads via droplet transmission, so just being within 6 feet of someone who's infected (and coughs/sneezes) is enough to spread it." On the other hand, people don't seem to be symptomatic for 2 weeks, so they won't be coughing or sneezing during that time, so ordinary hygiene should be enough to prevent most infections during the incubation period. After people do become symptomatic, the widespread media attention and fear among the general public will likely cause them to go to the hospital or isolate themselves from each other, which should further reduce infections.
- slumdev 7y ago
  It would make sense that risk is lower before symptoms appear, but it's still there. Everybody sneezes occasionally, coughs to clear their throat, etc. Smokers more so.

akiselev 7y ago

I think you're remembering the fire bit backwards. A lack of controlled burns due to discontinuation of indigenous practices and budget cuts combined with increased fire fighting (preventing natural burns) caused fuel to build up in forests that would have burned away in smaller fires. Many plants in Australia are actually adapted to frequent fires like the eucalyptus tree whose oils ignite during fires to wipe out all competitors near their seeds, which also require fire to germinate. Because of the intensity of the fires this year, it became too hot for many of those species and they now wont be able to reestablish. A similar problem developed in California due to overzealous fire fighting that built up the forest floor over decades and led to some devastating fires.

wyldfire 7y ago
> I think you're remembering the fire bit backwards. A lack of controlled burns due to discontinuation of indigenous practices and budget cuts combined with increased fire fighting (preventing natural burns) caused fuel to build up in forests that would have burned away in smaller fires. Yes, my mistake, that's probably it.
cyphar 7y ago
In Australia, a larger factor is that cotton farmers have literally been stealing water from the Murray-Darling catchment system, resulting in the entire bush becoming much drier for the past decade.
- Gustomaximus 7y ago
  Do you have any source for that? Cotton farms have taken significant flow and effected the river itself. But I've not seen anything that links these farms to the bush around the region.
  - cyphar 7y ago
    The Murray-Darling river system covers most of NSW and Victoria, so it's not hard to intuit that a drier river system will result in drier conditions in NSW and Victoria. I don't have a source which says "the fires were predominantly caused by the drying of the river system", but given the geography it seems more unlikely (at least to me) that it didn't have a significant impact.

Geee 7y ago

Somewhat. However, the virus is a novel mutation, which means that even if we exposed ourselves to other similar viruses at younger age, it wouldn't help. At least that's my understanding. On evolutionary timescales, it's better to expose whole population from time to time, so that we don't lose the immune system response against these altogether.

Grue3 7y ago

Back when we didn't have good hygiene, we had Spanish Flu and Black Plague. It's hard to imagine such massive outbreaks these days in developed countries.