5 ms·

This raises what's really the ultimate question, which is whether and how much individuals should be made to suffer so that advertisers can send spam. Certainly

This raises what's really the ultimate question, which is whether and how much individuals should be made to suffer so that advertisers can send spam. Certainly the recipients are not responsible for the advertisers' decisions to spam, or more charitably, to blur the lines. Yet it's individuals who pay, in this case literally, for the advertisers' privilege of spamming them. It's extremely fucked.

edmundsauto 7y ago
I think this is what happens in open systems. The alternative is walled gardens, like FB messages. Even those suffer from spam, although it's much less of the wild west.
- mc3 7y ago
  The alternative is simple: For stranger to stranger communication, both business and non-business set up a web form. With a challenge if needed. For friend to friend communication, use email, friends' address in on a white list. For business to consumer communication, white list is again used. For spammer to anyone communication, including business lists that refuse to take you off, not on white list so doesn't get in. Bounce response with reason "non on white list" It's a cultural change though: an email address won't get through unless you are unblocked, but technically easy.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    What's the easy/low-friction way for Joe Random Consumer to manage their whitelists? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is not (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? Do I never hear from the first friend? Or do I get bombarded with "hey, read this email and see if the sender is a friend" a bunch of times?
    - mc3 7y ago
      Fair game. You got me, I have no nice answer other than phone your friend. I'll stop digging. I'm not going to do what this guy did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16862739 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16862739
    - ezrast 7y ago
      I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I think it's: Joe manages his whitelist through his mail provider's web UI. Many providers already use the address book as a whitelist; the only difference is they default to filtration instead of assuming spam. Joe's friend's mail gets routed to the spam box. Joe's friend gets a bounce notification that says "To be added to Joe's whitelist, click here (and optionally solve a captcha/enter Joe's dog's name/submit a blood sample/deposit $0.25 worth of bitcoin into Joe's wallet)." Joe's friend clicks here, and Joe's mail provider adds Joe's friend to the whitelist and promotes the email to the inbox. Joe's spammer gets the same message and disregards it. Their email stays in spam forever. Joe's spam box gets bombarded with "hey, read this email and see if the sender is a friend" a bunch of times. He can trawl through them for actual friends if he wishes.
  - edmundsauto 7y ago
    A system with more inherent friction -- whether cognitive or social expectations -- will be out-optimized by one with less.
jchw 7y ago
Actually I think individuals suffer so that less SPAM gets through. The SPAM is flowing regardless.

edmundsauto 7y ago

I think this is what happens in open systems. The alternative is walled gardens, like FB messages. Even those suffer from spam, although it's much less of the wild west.

mc3 7y ago
The alternative is simple: For stranger to stranger communication, both business and non-business set up a web form. With a challenge if needed. For friend to friend communication, use email, friends' address in on a white list. For business to consumer communication, white list is again used. For spammer to anyone communication, including business lists that refuse to take you off, not on white list so doesn't get in. Bounce response with reason "non on white list" It's a cultural change though: an email address won't get through unless you are unblocked, but technically easy.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  What's the easy/low-friction way for Joe Random Consumer to manage their whitelists? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is not (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? Do I never hear from the first friend? Or do I get bombarded with "hey, read this email and see if the sender is a friend" a bunch of times?
  - mc3 7y ago
    Fair game. You got me, I have no nice answer other than phone your friend. I'll stop digging. I'm not going to do what this guy did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16862739 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16862739
  - ezrast 7y ago
    I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I think it's: Joe manages his whitelist through his mail provider's web UI. Many providers already use the address book as a whitelist; the only difference is they default to filtration instead of assuming spam. Joe's friend's mail gets routed to the spam box. Joe's friend gets a bounce notification that says "To be added to Joe's whitelist, click here (and optionally solve a captcha/enter Joe's dog's name/submit a blood sample/deposit $0.25 worth of bitcoin into Joe's wallet)." Joe's friend clicks here, and Joe's mail provider adds Joe's friend to the whitelist and promotes the email to the inbox. Joe's spammer gets the same message and disregards it. Their email stays in spam forever. Joe's spam box gets bombarded with "hey, read this email and see if the sender is a friend" a bunch of times. He can trawl through them for actual friends if he wishes.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  A system with more inherent friction -- whether cognitive or social expectations -- will be out-optimized by one with less.

jchw 7y ago

Actually I think individuals suffer so that less SPAM gets through. The SPAM is flowing regardless.