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It seemed during the conference that they were trying their best to not step on Beijing's toes. I wonder if they think China would stop cooperating if they call

It seemed during the conference that they were trying their best to not step on Beijing's toes. I wonder if they think China would stop cooperating if they called them out on their poor containment procedures.

DarthGhandi 7y ago
How is locking down an entire city "poor containment". Find it staggering to insinuate that were it originating in Western countries we'd do the same?
- forever_spring 7y ago
  On timeline of events, there was a week or so of delay between first death + ICL paper and the city lockdown. It can be argued the lockdown was very late. The OP might also mean poor containment within China - which is only relying on other countries right now.
  - s1artibartfast 7y ago
    Very late relative to what? Certainly later than one would hope, but is there a real world benchmark for the handling situations like this that they fell short of? Have similar viruses crossed over in other countries and been handled better?
    - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
      International Conventions on Quarantines were basically established at a time when the most common global transmission of viruses was by sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine#International_conve...
  - DarthGhandi 7y ago
    > containment within China I find it incredibly hard to believe if this happened in other countries they'd simply ban all travel into and out of the nation. Would your country do that given the same circumstance?
- tenpies 7y ago
  > How is locking down an entire city "poor containment". Because it followed a week of ignoring the issue and then another week of arresting people who were reporting on the issue. This has been an issue since December 28th, but China and the WHO are pretending it began just recently. It's "containment" in much the same way that the Soviet Union just couldn't stop lying about Chernobyl because people miles away were melting from the inside, so they took drastic actions to pretend they were on top of things. Those "hospitals" they are building (and selectively live streaming parts with glorious Party tunes on the background)? Those were resorts that were almost complete, but since tourism in the area is going to be dead for a decade, they're turning them into hospitals and claiming they're brand new buildings. What is staggering to me is not that China finally moved when it realized the problem could not be swept under the rug, it's that the WHO is going along with the doublespeak of saying "all is well" but then also declaring an emergency, but don't cancel your trips to China!
  - DarthGhandi 7y ago
    Can you find me what the 8 people arrested for actually wrote? 5 have been arrested in Malaysia and 2 in Thailand also, have read the viral fake news they wrote and have no problems with their arrest at all. In the shadier parts of the internet I'm already seeing services for ruining your competitors with viral social media fear campaigns. r/Australia has a big sticky of all the nonsense being peddled in the country and the NSW health department is constantly having to repudiate popularly shared content. The bullshit asymmetry principle at work. > China finally moved when it realized the problem could not be swept under the rug Again, if this outbreak was in the US or Northern Europe, would they _move_ as quickly? Would huge cities be quarantined? Find it incredibly hard to believe. It's 2020, hiding things a la Chernobyl is not so easy. I think they are doing a half decent job given the circumstances and it's just the usual China bashing by people who have absolutely no idea about the country and only knowledge comes from the newsmedia
    - whylie 7y ago
      You speak of quarantining huge cities like it's some sort of accomplishment worthy of praise and not a brute force response to the effects of their own negligence. Being critical != bashing, why are you being so defensive about the situation? Why are you trying to drag other countries down saying they wouldn't do any better? What is your goal?
- sliken 7y ago
  Corona virus was first detected in mid December. Things got pretty serious over the next 4 weeks, 5M people left the city before any containment happened. So of course now everywhere in China has it, not exactly a good containment. The Wuhan mayor said he'd been talking to the China administration for 4 weeks before being allowed to talk about it to the public.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
ibatindev 7y ago
I felt the same way. They went over and over and over stating that WHO endorsed every Xi Jinping's decisions so far.

DarthGhandi 7y ago

How is locking down an entire city "poor containment". Find it staggering to insinuate that were it originating in Western countries we'd do the same?

forever_spring 7y ago
On timeline of events, there was a week or so of delay between first death + ICL paper and the city lockdown. It can be argued the lockdown was very late. The OP might also mean poor containment within China - which is only relying on other countries right now.
- s1artibartfast 7y ago
  Very late relative to what? Certainly later than one would hope, but is there a real world benchmark for the handling situations like this that they fell short of? Have similar viruses crossed over in other countries and been handled better?
  - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
    International Conventions on Quarantines were basically established at a time when the most common global transmission of viruses was by sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine#International_conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine#International_conve...
- DarthGhandi 7y ago
  > containment within China I find it incredibly hard to believe if this happened in other countries they'd simply ban all travel into and out of the nation. Would your country do that given the same circumstance?
tenpies 7y ago
> How is locking down an entire city "poor containment". Because it followed a week of ignoring the issue and then another week of arresting people who were reporting on the issue. This has been an issue since December 28th, but China and the WHO are pretending it began just recently. It's "containment" in much the same way that the Soviet Union just couldn't stop lying about Chernobyl because people miles away were melting from the inside, so they took drastic actions to pretend they were on top of things. Those "hospitals" they are building (and selectively live streaming parts with glorious Party tunes on the background)? Those were resorts that were almost complete, but since tourism in the area is going to be dead for a decade, they're turning them into hospitals and claiming they're brand new buildings. What is staggering to me is not that China finally moved when it realized the problem could not be swept under the rug, it's that the WHO is going along with the doublespeak of saying "all is well" but then also declaring an emergency, but don't cancel your trips to China!
- DarthGhandi 7y ago
  Can you find me what the 8 people arrested for actually wrote? 5 have been arrested in Malaysia and 2 in Thailand also, have read the viral fake news they wrote and have no problems with their arrest at all. In the shadier parts of the internet I'm already seeing services for ruining your competitors with viral social media fear campaigns. r/Australia has a big sticky of all the nonsense being peddled in the country and the NSW health department is constantly having to repudiate popularly shared content. The bullshit asymmetry principle at work. > China finally moved when it realized the problem could not be swept under the rug Again, if this outbreak was in the US or Northern Europe, would they _move_ as quickly? Would huge cities be quarantined? Find it incredibly hard to believe. It's 2020, hiding things a la Chernobyl is not so easy. I think they are doing a half decent job given the circumstances and it's just the usual China bashing by people who have absolutely no idea about the country and only knowledge comes from the newsmedia
  - whylie 7y ago
    You speak of quarantining huge cities like it's some sort of accomplishment worthy of praise and not a brute force response to the effects of their own negligence. Being critical != bashing, why are you being so defensive about the situation? Why are you trying to drag other countries down saying they wouldn't do any better? What is your goal?
sliken 7y ago
Corona virus was first detected in mid December. Things got pretty serious over the next 4 weeks, 5M people left the city before any containment happened. So of course now everywhere in China has it, not exactly a good containment. The Wuhan mayor said he'd been talking to the China administration for 4 weeks before being allowed to talk about it to the public.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

ibatindev 7y ago

I felt the same way. They went over and over and over stating that WHO endorsed every Xi Jinping's decisions so far.