6 ms·

I don't think smartphones can win without apps, and the OS market is getting pretty saturated. If iOS, Android, WebOS, and WP7 all have more users, when am I ev

I don't think smartphones can win without apps, and the OS market is getting pretty saturated. If iOS, Android, WebOS, and WP7 all have more users, when am I ever going to get around to writing MeeGo apps?

cookiecaper 16y ago
MeeGo, at least last I knew, follows in the vein of Maemo and doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland. Perhaps this has changed recently but I don't think it has. You can unify most of the codebase in .NET probably; use MonoTouch and MonoDroid for iOS and Android, Mono for Meego, and MS's included CLR on WP7. That only leaves webOS.
- grav1tas 16y ago
  Even if that were the case, you still have to package your app for distribution. The app store model probably makes this easier to do since you don't have to develop a framework for pushing your apps along with any updates you have down the road. Naturally there are libraries for this, but you still have to mess with them, and maintain deployment stuff on your own end.
- ajg1977 16y ago
  it doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland This type of fundamental failure to understand the consumer space is exactly what's driving Nokia into the ground. Consumers don't give a fig what userland your device is compatible with. Consumers want a super-simple way of finding interesting apps, putting them on their phone, and having them look good and run problem free. So yes, you really do need special apps.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    I didn't say consumers cared. I am annoyed to see people upvoting you since you are replying to something I didn't say or attempt to say. The grandparent said developers would have a difficult time keeping up, and I was replying to that. If you have a decent consumer-facing Linux application, it is easy to port it to Meego since it's basically the same thing, with maybe a few extra integration hooks to add in. Especially if the app uses Qt anyway. This, indeed, is a positive for developers, which is what the OP addressed. It trickles down to consumers, too -- if I can run normal programs with few or no changes on my phone, I'll have a lot more choices that already exist available to me. Also, as I stated, a normal Linux userland means normal Linux applications and things work -- you can use Mono or Wine if you want to run a Windows or .NET application.
    - seabee 16y ago
      I think those benefits are overstated. You've still got to make significant changes to the interface if you want it to work well on a touchscreen device. And is the backend any more portable from regular C++ > MeeGo compared to iPhone, or Java > Android?
    - ajg1977 16y ago
      Honestly, doing this backend work is pretty trivial. Aside from Windows Phone that is, where everything must be in managed code (doh). But iPhone / Android is trivial, like literally a couple of days for a moderately complex app with storage, threading, background downloading, and so on. Even input isn't too bad for simple gestures. The real work for non-game apps is converting all of your UI and device interactions to the new OS. Linux compatibility might let you avoid rewriting your code that opens files, bit it's not going to let you make a UI element pulse for a few seconds then drop off the screen.
    - nl 16y ago
      "Port Linux applications to Meego" So that's the plan to save Nokia? Wow. Surely the success of the iPad vs Windows Tablets has taught us that the touch interface is totally different to the WIMP interface? If that's not enough, then huge difference in hardware between a 24" i7 and a 3.2" ARM means perhaps the programs should behave just a little bit different?
  - pyre 16y ago
    > So yes, you really do need special apps. Do you really? All you've stated is that MeeGo needs an AppStore.
    - innes 16y ago
      All you need is an app store to install linux desktop apps on your phone? Even the dreaded Microsoft worked out that phones aren't tiny desktop PCs.
- joebananas 16y ago
  I cannot think of a more surefire way to make your smartphone fail than to have it use a desktop UI.
grav1tas 16y ago
That's actually a very interesting point. Is maintaining another app distribution system viable in the face of "developer fatigue"? I guess that also sorta begs the question: is developer fatigue real?
mike_esspe 16y ago
Probably Nokia should write the emulator of Android and iPhone API? Something like cygwin. That would give them a lot of apps.
- drdaeman 16y ago
  It's already coming. http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announce... With this Nokia can use Android ecosystem while not being yet-another-Android-vendor.

cookiecaper 16y ago

MeeGo, at least last I knew, follows in the vein of Maemo and doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland. Perhaps this has changed recently but I don't think it has. You can unify most of the codebase in .NET probably; use MonoTouch and MonoDroid for iOS and Android, Mono for Meego, and MS's included CLR on WP7. That only leaves webOS.

grav1tas 16y ago
Even if that were the case, you still have to package your app for distribution. The app store model probably makes this easier to do since you don't have to develop a framework for pushing your apps along with any updates you have down the road. Naturally there are libraries for this, but you still have to mess with them, and maintain deployment stuff on your own end.
ajg1977 16y ago
it doesn't need special apps written for it, it can run the same software as any Linux userland This type of fundamental failure to understand the consumer space is exactly what's driving Nokia into the ground. Consumers don't give a fig what userland your device is compatible with. Consumers want a super-simple way of finding interesting apps, putting them on their phone, and having them look good and run problem free. So yes, you really do need special apps.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  I didn't say consumers cared. I am annoyed to see people upvoting you since you are replying to something I didn't say or attempt to say. The grandparent said developers would have a difficult time keeping up, and I was replying to that. If you have a decent consumer-facing Linux application, it is easy to port it to Meego since it's basically the same thing, with maybe a few extra integration hooks to add in. Especially if the app uses Qt anyway. This, indeed, is a positive for developers, which is what the OP addressed. It trickles down to consumers, too -- if I can run normal programs with few or no changes on my phone, I'll have a lot more choices that already exist available to me. Also, as I stated, a normal Linux userland means normal Linux applications and things work -- you can use Mono or Wine if you want to run a Windows or .NET application.
  - seabee 16y ago
    I think those benefits are overstated. You've still got to make significant changes to the interface if you want it to work well on a touchscreen device. And is the backend any more portable from regular C++ > MeeGo compared to iPhone, or Java > Android?
  - ajg1977 16y ago
    Honestly, doing this backend work is pretty trivial. Aside from Windows Phone that is, where everything must be in managed code (doh). But iPhone / Android is trivial, like literally a couple of days for a moderately complex app with storage, threading, background downloading, and so on. Even input isn't too bad for simple gestures. The real work for non-game apps is converting all of your UI and device interactions to the new OS. Linux compatibility might let you avoid rewriting your code that opens files, bit it's not going to let you make a UI element pulse for a few seconds then drop off the screen.
  - nl 16y ago
    "Port Linux applications to Meego" So that's the plan to save Nokia? Wow. Surely the success of the iPad vs Windows Tablets has taught us that the touch interface is totally different to the WIMP interface? If that's not enough, then huge difference in hardware between a 24" i7 and a 3.2" ARM means perhaps the programs should behave just a little bit different?
- pyre 16y ago
  > So yes, you really do need special apps. Do you really? All you've stated is that MeeGo needs an AppStore.
  - innes 16y ago
    All you need is an app store to install linux desktop apps on your phone? Even the dreaded Microsoft worked out that phones aren't tiny desktop PCs.
joebananas 16y ago
I cannot think of a more surefire way to make your smartphone fail than to have it use a desktop UI.

grav1tas 16y ago

That's actually a very interesting point. Is maintaining another app distribution system viable in the face of "developer fatigue"? I guess that also sorta begs the question: is developer fatigue real?

mike_esspe 16y ago

Probably Nokia should write the emulator of Android and iPhone API? Something like cygwin. That would give them a lot of apps.

drdaeman 16y ago
It's already coming. http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announces-Alien%20Dalvik-Enables-Android-Apps-to-Run-on-Non-Android-Phones.aspx http://www.myriadgroup.com/Media-Centre/News/Myriad-Announce... With this Nokia can use Android ecosystem while not being yet-another-Android-vendor.