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Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://

Shameless plug, but we just shipped our huge Gaia Topo update too. Gaia Topo focuses on the backcountry, and specifically downloading for offline use: https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-all-new-gaia-topo/ https://blog.gaiagps.com/easy-to-read-tiny-to-download-the-a...

justusthane 7y ago
I just found Gaia (and became a Premium member) not too long ago as I was preparing for a kayaing trip. I love Gaia! Thanks for the great work. Edit: Although can you tell me whether there's a way, on iOS, to have the map not switch to dark mode when my device is in dark mode?
mthoms 7y ago
Happy user, reporting in. Nice work!
leokennis 7y ago
Absolutely love Gaia! Almost 10 years of my outdoor life are in that app! With the current pricing and amount of users, is it a sustainable business?
- andrewljohnson 7y ago
  Thanks, we'll be going strong for another 10 years :) I think the business is very healthy. Headcount continues to grow, but not in a crazy way, and the great majority of the expenses are R&D. We're certainly default alive.
kylebarron 7y ago
I've thought for a while that your Gaia Topo layer could be improved, especially because until now I don't think you had any hillshade at all for a topo map! I spent some time checking out your map this morning, and it looks really nice at low zooms, but I'm still a little disappointed at high zooms. At zoom 13 the hillshading ends! For example, at zoom 14, I still much prefer a map with a hillshade (my own work): https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&layer=GaiaTopoRasterFeet https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&laye... https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15 https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15
- andrewljohnson 7y ago
  That's fair... we chose to drop the shading at that zoom, but we could be wrong. I think some people prefer a cleaner read when zoomed in so far (especially for field use), and shading also makes the tiles larger/slower to download. Gaia GPS does have a separate raster hill-shading layer from ESRI you could layer on top, and we've been considering making our own (we already have an elevation data pipeline and create contour lines, so hill-shading isn't a huge step). Maybe that would have a special UX where you could choose to include it or not in your downloads. I dig your map style!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - kylebarron 7y ago
    That's true regarding file size. It is nice to have the option to overlay another hillshading layer. I use Terrain RGB tiles that I [make myself](https://github.com/nst-guide/terrain#terrain-rgb https://github.com/nst-guide/terrain#terrain-rgb), and having elevation data on the client opens up cool future possibilities like client-side viewshed analysis. And thanks! The [style](https://github.com/nst-guide/osm-liberty-topo https://github.com/nst-guide/osm-liberty-topo) and the rest of this project is open source. The style is a fork of osm-liberty, using the OpenMapTiles schema.
0xffff2 7y ago
I just downloaded the app. Can I not use it at all without an account? If so, why?
- andrewljohnson 7y ago
  You should be able to use without an account. There is a Skip button in the top right corner of the opening screen, or the Register screen. Ping me at andrew@gaiagps.com if you can't find it.
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    Ah, yeah, my bad for not noticing the dark grey text on a black background.
    - andrewljohnson 7y ago
      Ah, I apologize... I think you were seeing a bug in our dark mode implementation, which was just released. We fixed it in the next update.
xoa 7y ago
Interesting, I do a lot of backcountry with no cell and have mostly relied on old style maps turned to PDFs and downloaded or various OSM apps, this looks up my alley. One question though I often have for membership programs: how does it apply to families? I very much value all 4 of us in my household having the ability to share key apps and data, particularly for something that has safety applications. I see you have a Teams program but that looks commercially oriented. Apple has "Family Sharing" but for paid apps. How does that scenario work with Gaia Topo? If I grabbed a 5 year premium sub, would the kids be able to run off that too (at least while they're living at home) or does each individual need a separate membership? Not trying to single you out or anything, I think a lot of the current app sales models and sub models are fairly individual focused at the present stage of things. More explicitly addressing couples/families (including what happens as they grow up/split) might be worth considering though, I think a lot of people will spend significantly more if it benefits links with household members.
- andrewljohnson 7y ago
  You can share a Membership as long as you don't mind sharing the username/password combo. You'll all end up recording your data to the same account, if you record tracks, photos, etc. Your family might not need a Membership at all though - that's only if you need to download maps for offline use, or if you want to use different map sources... Gaia Topo and all the features besides mass-downloading are free.
  - xoa 7y ago
    >that's only if you need to download maps for offline use Well yeah that's pretty critical (particularly as a differentiator vs Apple Maps). I'm in northern New England, huge portions of north NY and VT/NH/ME have no cell coverage at all. Let alone Canada. Online maps are nearly useless not just for hiking and general backcountry work but even regular driving to job sites. My own town has no cell at all downtown, not just "no LTE", no cell coverage period. If you've ever looked at coverage maps the phone companies put out showing huge areas all nicely lit, know that they are flagrant lies that are finally even getting government attention. If you're interested, first search result article that came up is one from last year on VT going ahead and actually spending 6 weeks driving around the whole state testing themselves: https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2019/01/24/vermont-cell-phone-coverage-maps-dead-zone-verizon-att/2467205002/ https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont... A touch different then what the cell companies claimed :). Thank you very much for the reply though! It's good to know that, with the caveat of no individual profiles, an account could be shared around a bit without getting auto banned; I know some services do track that. FWIW, might be worth considering as a some-day feature to have a cut-down version of your Teams offering or a bundle as an official Family Plan, for a bit more money than standard with "up to 6" (or 5 or whatever) profiles. At any rate though, good to have more options to consider in mapping.

justusthane 7y ago

I just found Gaia (and became a Premium member) not too long ago as I was preparing for a kayaing trip. I love Gaia! Thanks for the great work. Edit: Although can you tell me whether there's a way, on iOS, to have the map not switch to dark mode when my device is in dark mode?

mthoms 7y ago

Happy user, reporting in. Nice work!

leokennis 7y ago

Absolutely love Gaia! Almost 10 years of my outdoor life are in that app! With the current pricing and amount of users, is it a sustainable business?

andrewljohnson 7y ago
Thanks, we'll be going strong for another 10 years :) I think the business is very healthy. Headcount continues to grow, but not in a crazy way, and the great majority of the expenses are R&D. We're certainly default alive.

kylebarron 7y ago

I've thought for a while that your Gaia Topo layer could be improved, especially because until now I don't think you had any hillshade at all for a topo map! I spent some time checking out your map this morning, and it looks really nice at low zooms, but I'm still a little disappointed at high zooms. At zoom 13 the hillshading ends! For example, at zoom 14, I still much prefer a map with a hillshade (my own work): https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&layer=GaiaTopoRasterFeet https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=14.0/-121.1500/48.1582&laye... https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15 https://nst.guide/#14/48.1582/-121.15

andrewljohnson 7y ago
That's fair... we chose to drop the shading at that zoom, but we could be wrong. I think some people prefer a cleaner read when zoomed in so far (especially for field use), and shading also makes the tiles larger/slower to download. Gaia GPS does have a separate raster hill-shading layer from ESRI you could layer on top, and we've been considering making our own (we already have an elevation data pipeline and create contour lines, so hill-shading isn't a huge step). Maybe that would have a special UX where you could choose to include it or not in your downloads. I dig your map style!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kylebarron 7y ago
  That's true regarding file size. It is nice to have the option to overlay another hillshading layer. I use Terrain RGB tiles that I [make myself](https://github.com/nst-guide/terrain#terrain-rgb https://github.com/nst-guide/terrain#terrain-rgb), and having elevation data on the client opens up cool future possibilities like client-side viewshed analysis. And thanks! The [style](https://github.com/nst-guide/osm-liberty-topo https://github.com/nst-guide/osm-liberty-topo) and the rest of this project is open source. The style is a fork of osm-liberty, using the OpenMapTiles schema.

0xffff2 7y ago

I just downloaded the app. Can I not use it at all without an account? If so, why?

andrewljohnson 7y ago
You should be able to use without an account. There is a Skip button in the top right corner of the opening screen, or the Register screen. Ping me at andrew@gaiagps.com if you can't find it.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Ah, yeah, my bad for not noticing the dark grey text on a black background.
  - andrewljohnson 7y ago
    Ah, I apologize... I think you were seeing a bug in our dark mode implementation, which was just released. We fixed it in the next update.

xoa 7y ago

Interesting, I do a lot of backcountry with no cell and have mostly relied on old style maps turned to PDFs and downloaded or various OSM apps, this looks up my alley. One question though I often have for membership programs: how does it apply to families? I very much value all 4 of us in my household having the ability to share key apps and data, particularly for something that has safety applications. I see you have a Teams program but that looks commercially oriented. Apple has "Family Sharing" but for paid apps. How does that scenario work with Gaia Topo? If I grabbed a 5 year premium sub, would the kids be able to run off that too (at least while they're living at home) or does each individual need a separate membership? Not trying to single you out or anything, I think a lot of the current app sales models and sub models are fairly individual focused at the present stage of things. More explicitly addressing couples/families (including what happens as they grow up/split) might be worth considering though, I think a lot of people will spend significantly more if it benefits links with household members.

andrewljohnson 7y ago
You can share a Membership as long as you don't mind sharing the username/password combo. You'll all end up recording your data to the same account, if you record tracks, photos, etc. Your family might not need a Membership at all though - that's only if you need to download maps for offline use, or if you want to use different map sources... Gaia Topo and all the features besides mass-downloading are free.
- xoa 7y ago
  >that's only if you need to download maps for offline use Well yeah that's pretty critical (particularly as a differentiator vs Apple Maps). I'm in northern New England, huge portions of north NY and VT/NH/ME have no cell coverage at all. Let alone Canada. Online maps are nearly useless not just for hiking and general backcountry work but even regular driving to job sites. My own town has no cell at all downtown, not just "no LTE", no cell coverage period. If you've ever looked at coverage maps the phone companies put out showing huge areas all nicely lit, know that they are flagrant lies that are finally even getting government attention. If you're interested, first search result article that came up is one from last year on VT going ahead and actually spending 6 weeks driving around the whole state testing themselves: https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2019/01/24/vermont-cell-phone-coverage-maps-dead-zone-verizon-att/2467205002/ https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont... A touch different then what the cell companies claimed :). Thank you very much for the reply though! It's good to know that, with the caveat of no individual profiles, an account could be shared around a bit without getting auto banned; I know some services do track that. FWIW, might be worth considering as a some-day feature to have a cut-down version of your Teams offering or a bundle as an official Family Plan, for a bit more money than standard with "up to 6" (or 5 or whatever) profiles. At any rate though, good to have more options to consider in mapping.