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Congrats to the teams who did this! It’s been a long time coming.. and a lot of people said along the way that Apple should just give up it was too far behind.

Congrats to the teams who did this! It’s been a long time coming.. and a lot of people said along the way that Apple should just give up it was too far behind. Perseverance (and a lot of resources) can go a long way! It reminds me of some advice given to me by a heavily successful industrialist friend — never dismiss your competition, for the world is not static.

dylan604 7y ago
"Is it Apple Maps bad?" --Gavin Belson, Silicon Valley They had no place to go but up. That first version was absolutely embarrassing. I'm honestly surprised they were allowed to make it this far. To this day, I still do not use Apple Maps. As much as they try to get me to use it with all of the iOS embedding they've done, I still won't use it.
- azinman2 7y ago
  Why not? Because it started out bad.... 7 years ago?
  - fjp 7y ago
    Anecdotally Apple Maps is still really bad. I have tried using it to drive and walk around major cities in the last two years and it just completely misrepresents where some roads are, it doesn't catch up with construction, etc. etc.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - azinman2 7y ago
      This announcement today was about the release of entirely new rebuilt maps data for the entire US, from the ground up.
      - tcbasche 7y ago
        Yes it's almost as if this thread is attached to an article about how Apple Maps is not the same as it once was
      - what_ever 7y ago
        Wasn't the rollout happening by region all through 2019? Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is getting new data TODAY. Look at the previous coverage on this blog - https://www.justinobeirne.com/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/
        azinman2 7y ago
        The PR piece says: "Apple completed the rollout of this new Maps experience in the United States and will begin rolling it out across Europe in the coming months."
        what_ever 7y ago
        Yes, which means that the person you are responding may have had new data already from the old rollout. Not sure what are you trying to say from this comment.
        azinman2 7y ago
        I interpreted "Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is getting new data TODAY" to mean that they don't have new data at all. My original comment was a reference to the "the last two years" of the GP, suggesting that their experience will be different now than 2 years ago. Perhaps in the last year it was already different and still not good enough, or perhaps it wasn't different yet and now it will be so the two year old data isn't sufficient to judge anymore. Only fjp can say.
        fjp 7y ago
        I meant this to imply that my experience likely did not include the new data or experience or whatever they updated. I’m always cheering for a really good G Maps alternative and will give Apple Maps another shot
    - xenospn 7y ago
      Anecdotally I have been using it for the last 7 years and it's been perfectly fine around multiple US states and dozens of cities. The only glitch I had was driving out of the Dallas airport, but Google Maps had the exact same glitch.
      - dylan604 7y ago
        Don't worry, everyone has problems driving out of DFW airport with or without a maps app. From it's left exits to the merging lanes from cloverleaf ramps/exits, it is amazing there are not more accidents than there are.
  - dylan604 7y ago
    I've tried it several times after various upgrades, but just never has won me over. There's multiple competing products. This particular one has always been behind in usability. There's just always been something that wasn't up to snuff, and I stop using it. I have better things to do than suffer with less usable software. In the old days of Macromedia Freehand and Adobe Illustrator, each version would add features and updates that would make it slightly better than the other. I would use it until the other came out with their new version. It was a constant ping pong/leapfrog of competing products trying to win until Adobe ultimately won outright. In my testing, not once has Apple Maps leapfrogged to be the leading app.
- mcbutterbunz 7y ago
  This update may make me switch from Google Maps. The UI in Google Maps has always been confusing and cluttered. There's a search bar, then quick search buttons underneath, then the layers button, "Explore nearby", explore, commute, "For you", and then finally the hamburger menu. Apple Maps is a lot cleaner but the only thing missing was the quality of the actual maps. Hopefully that has changed now.
  - itp 7y ago
    There's also the ability to collaborate with people who don't have an iOS device. If someone creates a Collection in Apple Maps I just don't get to participate. If someone creates a shared list in Google Maps I can see it on my phone, a web browser, someone with an iPhone...
    - briandear 7y ago
      And Google gets to see it too. And all their advertisers.
      - reissbaker 7y ago
        Google doesn't give your map collections to advertisers. It's true that Google gets to see them, but Apple is no better in that regard: they store your collections on their servers too (where else would they store them?).
        krrrh 7y ago
        Apple is better in that regard. End-to-end encryption Maps keeps your personal data in sync across all your devices using end-to-end encryption. Your Significant Locations and collections are encrypted end-to-end so Apple cannot read them. And when you share your ETA with other Maps users, Apple can’t see your location. Other useful sections on that page worth reading: "Location Fuzzing", "Random Identifiers", and "(on-device) Personalization" From: https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/
doodlebugging 7y ago
The teams are mostly 1099 contract workers through a third party with no benefits and no hope of advancement or future employment as full-time employee of Apple since their contract specifically expires in one year. They make around $20/hour usually right out of college in a town (Austin) with one of the fastest growing cost of living due to the influx of all the tech companies who got tired of the California scene and decided to move to Texas for the sweet tax cuts and business-friendly environment. I'm sure the contract company siphons most of the contract value from Apple and the dedicated workers doing all the GIS work, the turn-by-turn descriptions, business identifications, etc. updating all the things that made the original Apple Maps such a delicious joke are left with an income that barely meets expenses in a town where those expenses are steadily rising. This job for them is just a resume filler though they aren't even allowed, due to NDA, to specify exactly what they do (what software or skills they use) or who they do it for when they update their resumes so that before the end of their one year contracts they can find a real career-type job. It is a great update to a product that did originally suck though. It isn't Apple employees who are doing the actual work. They're the supervisors.
- baggy_trough 7y ago
  Apple gave them an option that was better than all others available to them. Otherwise they would be doing that other option instead. So thanks, Apple!
  - doodlebugging 7y ago
    It is very likely that you are correct. Thanks, Apple!
- arrakeen 7y ago
  i am a well-paid contractor who disagrees
  - doodlebugging 7y ago
    Then you obviously are not one of the $20/hr contractors referenced in my comment. I am willing to accept that there are other contractors involved who are earning more for their efforts. Congratulations to you and I hope you find tremendous success no matter where you choose to apply your talents.
ehsankia 7y ago
Honestly, the redesign aside, it's really impressive how quickly they are catching up with most Google Maps features. Given, I haven't tried these myself and can't attest to their quality, but in the article they list: Real-Time Transit info, Sharing ETA, Indoor Maps, etc. They also got street view, and more. Of course, it's much easier to copy features than innovate, the latter takes years of UX research, while the former can simply just take all the lessons learned and implement the final iteration. That being said, it sounds like Apple has invested big time on their Maps team, doing so much is so little time is truly impressive.
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  As recently as a month ago apple maps sent my coworker miles from his destination to a very bad part of town. It is still pretty bad.
  - buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
    > to a very bad part of town As if the quality of the town they got sent to is somehow relevant?
    - galangalalgol 7y ago
      I think it underscores the ramifications of the bad software.
  - stouset 7y ago
    So… your friend entered the wrong address?
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      Not necessarily. Apple Maps sometimes has problems with street addresses that start with compass directions. You enter 1234 East Main Street and it sends you to 1234 West Main Street. I've had this happen to me multiple times in both Minneapolis and Albuquerque. Strangely, it only seems to happen while in foot, not while driving.

dylan604 7y ago

"Is it Apple Maps bad?" --Gavin Belson, Silicon Valley They had no place to go but up. That first version was absolutely embarrassing. I'm honestly surprised they were allowed to make it this far. To this day, I still do not use Apple Maps. As much as they try to get me to use it with all of the iOS embedding they've done, I still won't use it.

azinman2 7y ago
Why not? Because it started out bad.... 7 years ago?
- fjp 7y ago
  Anecdotally Apple Maps is still really bad. I have tried using it to drive and walk around major cities in the last two years and it just completely misrepresents where some roads are, it doesn't catch up with construction, etc. etc.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - azinman2 7y ago
    This announcement today was about the release of entirely new rebuilt maps data for the entire US, from the ground up.
    - tcbasche 7y ago
      Yes it's almost as if this thread is attached to an article about how Apple Maps is not the same as it once was
    - what_ever 7y ago
      Wasn't the rollout happening by region all through 2019? Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is getting new data TODAY. Look at the previous coverage on this blog - https://www.justinobeirne.com/ https://www.justinobeirne.com/
      - azinman2 7y ago
        The PR piece says: "Apple completed the rollout of this new Maps experience in the United States and will begin rolling it out across Europe in the coming months."
        what_ever 7y ago
        Yes, which means that the person you are responding may have had new data already from the old rollout. Not sure what are you trying to say from this comment.
        azinman2 7y ago
        I interpreted "Doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE is getting new data TODAY" to mean that they don't have new data at all. My original comment was a reference to the "the last two years" of the GP, suggesting that their experience will be different now than 2 years ago. Perhaps in the last year it was already different and still not good enough, or perhaps it wasn't different yet and now it will be so the two year old data isn't sufficient to judge anymore. Only fjp can say.
        fjp 7y ago
        I meant this to imply that my experience likely did not include the new data or experience or whatever they updated. I’m always cheering for a really good G Maps alternative and will give Apple Maps another shot
  - xenospn 7y ago
    Anecdotally I have been using it for the last 7 years and it's been perfectly fine around multiple US states and dozens of cities. The only glitch I had was driving out of the Dallas airport, but Google Maps had the exact same glitch.
    - dylan604 7y ago
      Don't worry, everyone has problems driving out of DFW airport with or without a maps app. From it's left exits to the merging lanes from cloverleaf ramps/exits, it is amazing there are not more accidents than there are.
- dylan604 7y ago
  I've tried it several times after various upgrades, but just never has won me over. There's multiple competing products. This particular one has always been behind in usability. There's just always been something that wasn't up to snuff, and I stop using it. I have better things to do than suffer with less usable software. In the old days of Macromedia Freehand and Adobe Illustrator, each version would add features and updates that would make it slightly better than the other. I would use it until the other came out with their new version. It was a constant ping pong/leapfrog of competing products trying to win until Adobe ultimately won outright. In my testing, not once has Apple Maps leapfrogged to be the leading app.
mcbutterbunz 7y ago
This update may make me switch from Google Maps. The UI in Google Maps has always been confusing and cluttered. There's a search bar, then quick search buttons underneath, then the layers button, "Explore nearby", explore, commute, "For you", and then finally the hamburger menu. Apple Maps is a lot cleaner but the only thing missing was the quality of the actual maps. Hopefully that has changed now.
- itp 7y ago
  There's also the ability to collaborate with people who don't have an iOS device. If someone creates a Collection in Apple Maps I just don't get to participate. If someone creates a shared list in Google Maps I can see it on my phone, a web browser, someone with an iPhone...
  - briandear 7y ago
    And Google gets to see it too. And all their advertisers.
    - reissbaker 7y ago
      Google doesn't give your map collections to advertisers. It's true that Google gets to see them, but Apple is no better in that regard: they store your collections on their servers too (where else would they store them?).
      - krrrh 7y ago
        Apple is better in that regard. End-to-end encryption Maps keeps your personal data in sync across all your devices using end-to-end encryption. Your Significant Locations and collections are encrypted end-to-end so Apple cannot read them. And when you share your ETA with other Maps users, Apple can’t see your location. Other useful sections on that page worth reading: "Location Fuzzing", "Random Identifiers", and "(on-device) Personalization" From: https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/

doodlebugging 7y ago

The teams are mostly 1099 contract workers through a third party with no benefits and no hope of advancement or future employment as full-time employee of Apple since their contract specifically expires in one year. They make around $20/hour usually right out of college in a town (Austin) with one of the fastest growing cost of living due to the influx of all the tech companies who got tired of the California scene and decided to move to Texas for the sweet tax cuts and business-friendly environment. I'm sure the contract company siphons most of the contract value from Apple and the dedicated workers doing all the GIS work, the turn-by-turn descriptions, business identifications, etc. updating all the things that made the original Apple Maps such a delicious joke are left with an income that barely meets expenses in a town where those expenses are steadily rising. This job for them is just a resume filler though they aren't even allowed, due to NDA, to specify exactly what they do (what software or skills they use) or who they do it for when they update their resumes so that before the end of their one year contracts they can find a real career-type job. It is a great update to a product that did originally suck though. It isn't Apple employees who are doing the actual work. They're the supervisors.

baggy_trough 7y ago
Apple gave them an option that was better than all others available to them. Otherwise they would be doing that other option instead. So thanks, Apple!
- doodlebugging 7y ago
  It is very likely that you are correct. Thanks, Apple!
arrakeen 7y ago
i am a well-paid contractor who disagrees
- doodlebugging 7y ago
  Then you obviously are not one of the $20/hr contractors referenced in my comment. I am willing to accept that there are other contractors involved who are earning more for their efforts. Congratulations to you and I hope you find tremendous success no matter where you choose to apply your talents.

ehsankia 7y ago

Honestly, the redesign aside, it's really impressive how quickly they are catching up with most Google Maps features. Given, I haven't tried these myself and can't attest to their quality, but in the article they list: Real-Time Transit info, Sharing ETA, Indoor Maps, etc. They also got street view, and more. Of course, it's much easier to copy features than innovate, the latter takes years of UX research, while the former can simply just take all the lessons learned and implement the final iteration. That being said, it sounds like Apple has invested big time on their Maps team, doing so much is so little time is truly impressive.

galangalalgol 7y ago
As recently as a month ago apple maps sent my coworker miles from his destination to a very bad part of town. It is still pretty bad.
- buzzerbetrayed 7y ago
  > to a very bad part of town As if the quality of the town they got sent to is somehow relevant?
  - galangalalgol 7y ago
    I think it underscores the ramifications of the bad software.
- stouset 7y ago
  So… your friend entered the wrong address?
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Not necessarily. Apple Maps sometimes has problems with street addresses that start with compass directions. You enter 1234 East Main Street and it sends you to 1234 West Main Street. I've had this happen to me multiple times in both Minneapolis and Albuquerque. Strangely, it only seems to happen while in foot, not while driving.