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I'm all for stronger traffic enforcement as much as the next concerned citizen, but honestly things like surveillance/speed/red light cameras don't actually mak

I'm all for stronger traffic enforcement as much as the next concerned citizen, but honestly things like surveillance/speed/red light cameras don't actually make anyone safer. If you google "Red Light Cameras Safety" You'll see plenty of articles like this one that state plenty of reasons why these cameras don't help as much as initially thought. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras... Instead, it would probably be much more effective to fine people for these transgressions as a percentage of their income. A $500 speeding ticket or a $100 parking ticket isn't really going to bother a person driving a $140,000 Tesla as much as its going to bother someone who is driving a $1500 Toyota Camery. We can probably actually continue to have the police selectively enforcing like they do now, but if people actually fear the consequences of breaking boneheaded traffic laws because they'll have to pay $15000 for a speeding ticket, then they'll be a lot less likely to break those laws.

Brendinooo 7y ago
This is an interesting argument, but I've heard it said that the 8th Amendment's prohibition on excessive fines could make such legislation difficult to implement. United States v. Bajakajian[0] is in play here. > Thus the Court declared that, within the context of judicial deference to the legislature's power to set punishments, a fine would not offend the Eighth Amendment unless it were "grossly disproportional to the gravity of a defendant's offense". A $15,000 speeding ticket is absolutely disproportional to the gravity of the offense of speeding, unless you find a way to argue that the offense is greater because of the net worth of the person committing it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#United_States_v._Bajakajian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United...
- soneil 7y ago
  I don't think anyone is arguing that the offense is greater - I think they'd argue they're putting the "proportion" back in proportional - making the fine proportional to the income, so that it has more equal impact.
  - Brendinooo 7y ago
    I understand, I'm just saying that there is text in the Constitution that says you can't do that. "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." If speeding is an equal offense for all people, then fining someone more for it would be excessive. I saw a source that believes it's a solvable problem, but any conversation about this issue has to solve that problem.
    - soneil 7y ago
      I think we'd just have to have a chat about the definition of what's excessive? Fining me $1m for something would be excessive, fining AT&T $1m for the same thing would be trivial. "excessive" is relative. The GPDR is an example of what I mean; where fines are written as €x or y% of revenue, whichever is higher - which is intended precisely to make fines proportional. There's little sense levying the same dollar fine against Google and my local corner shop - a figure that Google wouldn't notice would destroy the other.
clarry 7y ago
I'd love to see lights that somehow indicate they're about to go from green to yellow in 5-10 seconds or something like that. I hate the feeling when the light turns yellow when you're very close to the intersection -- a snappy decision to brake strongly could stop you in time before entering the intersection, but that might feel too sudden for comfort; but then continuing through probably means it'll be red when you're in the middle. It's even worse when you've seen that it's been green for a while, but don't know if it's going to be green long enough for you. There's going to be a temptation to accelerate, or at least maintain a high speed close to the intersection.. Likewise, I feel that more early indication for going green would make sitting in red lights less stressful. Alternatively, they could just make the yellow stay yellow a bit longer.

Brendinooo 7y ago

This is an interesting argument, but I've heard it said that the 8th Amendment's prohibition on excessive fines could make such legislation difficult to implement. United States v. Bajakajian[0] is in play here. > Thus the Court declared that, within the context of judicial deference to the legislature's power to set punishments, a fine would not offend the Eighth Amendment unless it were "grossly disproportional to the gravity of a defendant's offense". A $15,000 speeding ticket is absolutely disproportional to the gravity of the offense of speeding, unless you find a way to argue that the offense is greater because of the net worth of the person committing it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#United_States_v._Bajakajian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Amendment_to_the_United...

soneil 7y ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that the offense is greater - I think they'd argue they're putting the "proportion" back in proportional - making the fine proportional to the income, so that it has more equal impact.
- Brendinooo 7y ago
  I understand, I'm just saying that there is text in the Constitution that says you can't do that. "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." If speeding is an equal offense for all people, then fining someone more for it would be excessive. I saw a source that believes it's a solvable problem, but any conversation about this issue has to solve that problem.
  - soneil 7y ago
    I think we'd just have to have a chat about the definition of what's excessive? Fining me $1m for something would be excessive, fining AT&T $1m for the same thing would be trivial. "excessive" is relative. The GPDR is an example of what I mean; where fines are written as €x or y% of revenue, whichever is higher - which is intended precisely to make fines proportional. There's little sense levying the same dollar fine against Google and my local corner shop - a figure that Google wouldn't notice would destroy the other.

clarry 7y ago

I'd love to see lights that somehow indicate they're about to go from green to yellow in 5-10 seconds or something like that. I hate the feeling when the light turns yellow when you're very close to the intersection -- a snappy decision to brake strongly could stop you in time before entering the intersection, but that might feel too sudden for comfort; but then continuing through probably means it'll be red when you're in the middle. It's even worse when you've seen that it's been green for a while, but don't know if it's going to be green long enough for you. There's going to be a temptation to accelerate, or at least maintain a high speed close to the intersection.. Likewise, I feel that more early indication for going green would make sitting in red lights less stressful. Alternatively, they could just make the yellow stay yellow a bit longer.