4 ms·

Is there anything the community can do in these situations? If the Commonfields of Cahokia is contracted (changed from supposed) to be treating waster water an

by jimkri 7y ago

Is there anything the community can do in these situations? If the Commonfields of Cahokia is contracted (changed from supposed) to be treating waster water and is visible failing, can a company come in to try to fix the problem and ignore Commonfields? This is kind of a weirdly worded question, but what I want to know is if companies are actively being negligent can that be used against them to fight the problem?

Pfhreak 7y ago
I'm guessing it's a funding issue, and there isn't the tax base locally to pay for fixes. Combined with aging infrastructure and changing climate, I expect a lot more of this in years to come. I wouldn't turn to companies to solve it though, we should be ensuring our tax rates are sufficient to repair and replace our roads, bridges, sewers, etc.
- jimkri 7y ago
  I think the tax base is the leading factor in this as well. The state would care if the people had more money. I agree that correct tax rates would help in this situation, but I also feel that the towns that are contributing more in taxes will see the improvements over towns that have less money. Its a hard problem because I also don't know how a private company would be able to fund these projects.
- MikeAmelung 7y ago
  It's not just funding, it's also that the local government in these areas is entirely corrupt. Any money they do receive from above or collect from below is sure to be siphoned one way or another. If it wasn't so un-American, I'd suggest the only way they can be saved is to have the state or feds take over, like too many of our school districts around here. Then again, every governor of IL goes to jail, so maybe just the feds.
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    Only 4 of the last 7. Give credit where credit is due: nearly half have managed to not get caught.
  - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
    "Metro East, the city of East St. Louis had always served as more of a legal shell for corporate privilege—low taxes, nonexistent regulation, minimal public services—than a fully functioning city. By the late 1980s, the city’s sewer system was failing, and the city government was being sued by the EPA for misusing federal funds that had been earmarked for its repair." Corruption was a big part of the problem. But the root goes deeper. This was always a fake town, a hollow shell built to serve the interest of a business that no longer exists. I know this sounds cruel but the sewage is only a symptom of a larger problem. The Fed shouldn't step in to fix the sewers, they should step in to assist in relocating the residents somewhere else and let the ghost town sink into the fetrid swamp.
toomuchtodo 7y ago
Buy out the residents, help them relocate, demo the properties and prevent them from ever being purchased again. FEMA has a similar initiative and funding for properties that continually flood after natural disasters [1]. Due to Illinois finances, federal funding is likely required to accomplish this. Success is more likely than what would be necessary to keep these residents in place and fix the systemic issues that caused this to occur. If you’re in Illinois, consider forwarding this to your senators, and the House reps for these people. They’ll need funding for the Illinois EPA to administer the buyouts. [1] https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2014/05/28/communities-plagued-repeated-flooding-property-acquisition-may-be-answer https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2014/05/28/communities-pla...
- jimkri 7y ago
  I did not know that was something FEMA does, thanks for sharing! I agree that buying out the residents would be MUCH cheaper than fixing the problem. Do you know of any other towns that this has happened to?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Not sewer related, but an underground coal seam that was ignited and threatened the entire town. The town (Centralia, PA) was bought out, and the Interstate Route was shifted (if you’re in the area, stop by; I’ve walked the old Interstate at night and it was an experience). If someone wants to start a database of communities impacted, I would be happy to help. This is where public policy and tech can collide in impactful ways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania
HocusLocus 7y ago
The problem is that this condition is geographically inevitable on a floodplain with zero maintenance, or even if you get a little behind on the maintenance. And the catastrophe sets in soon after. It sounds like the town does have some lift stations (deep pits to collect sewage where it must be pumped into sealed forced mains some distance away down or over-hill, unless that area is flooded too) ... but they are in disrepair. Also storm water massively enters the sewer so even if lift stations did work they might flood every time. It would take a massive bond of magical unicorn money to fix, never mind the next phase of raising homes to avoid floods or rebuilding damaged ones. And even then, who would want a home always surrounded by dirty standing water? Perhaps it has gone past no return. What money could be found would be better spent helping to relocate the people to higher ground and condemning the land. The OK town I just left has several empty square blocks bought out by the city. For a whole town it would be disaster. There is probably no single company or entity one could lay all the blame. It was a bad idea to build there but people did anyway from desperation, when conditions were better. Then (probably during drier and more prosperous years) they doubled down on the bad idea and modern sanitary sewers were built working and maintained, but were only marginally resilient to a stretch of flood or bad economy. Even a municipality maintaining a lift station is helpless if the equipment gets repeatedly flooded out. No this is not a climate catastrophe. People have made the term cheap and useless.

by jimkri 7y ago

Pfhreak 7y ago

I'm guessing it's a funding issue, and there isn't the tax base locally to pay for fixes. Combined with aging infrastructure and changing climate, I expect a lot more of this in years to come. I wouldn't turn to companies to solve it though, we should be ensuring our tax rates are sufficient to repair and replace our roads, bridges, sewers, etc.

jimkri 7y ago
I think the tax base is the leading factor in this as well. The state would care if the people had more money. I agree that correct tax rates would help in this situation, but I also feel that the towns that are contributing more in taxes will see the improvements over towns that have less money. Its a hard problem because I also don't know how a private company would be able to fund these projects.
MikeAmelung 7y ago
It's not just funding, it's also that the local government in these areas is entirely corrupt. Any money they do receive from above or collect from below is sure to be siphoned one way or another. If it wasn't so un-American, I'd suggest the only way they can be saved is to have the state or feds take over, like too many of our school districts around here. Then again, every governor of IL goes to jail, so maybe just the feds.
- nkrisc 7y ago
  Only 4 of the last 7. Give credit where credit is due: nearly half have managed to not get caught.
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  "Metro East, the city of East St. Louis had always served as more of a legal shell for corporate privilege—low taxes, nonexistent regulation, minimal public services—than a fully functioning city. By the late 1980s, the city’s sewer system was failing, and the city government was being sued by the EPA for misusing federal funds that had been earmarked for its repair." Corruption was a big part of the problem. But the root goes deeper. This was always a fake town, a hollow shell built to serve the interest of a business that no longer exists. I know this sounds cruel but the sewage is only a symptom of a larger problem. The Fed shouldn't step in to fix the sewers, they should step in to assist in relocating the residents somewhere else and let the ghost town sink into the fetrid swamp.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Buy out the residents, help them relocate, demo the properties and prevent them from ever being purchased again. FEMA has a similar initiative and funding for properties that continually flood after natural disasters [1]. Due to Illinois finances, federal funding is likely required to accomplish this. Success is more likely than what would be necessary to keep these residents in place and fix the systemic issues that caused this to occur. If you’re in Illinois, consider forwarding this to your senators, and the House reps for these people. They’ll need funding for the Illinois EPA to administer the buyouts. [1] https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2014/05/28/communities-plagued-repeated-flooding-property-acquisition-may-be-answer https://www.fema.gov/news-release/2014/05/28/communities-pla...

jimkri 7y ago
I did not know that was something FEMA does, thanks for sharing! I agree that buying out the residents would be MUCH cheaper than fixing the problem. Do you know of any other towns that this has happened to?
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Not sewer related, but an underground coal seam that was ignited and threatened the entire town. The town (Centralia, PA) was bought out, and the Interstate Route was shifted (if you’re in the area, stop by; I’ve walked the old Interstate at night and it was an experience). If someone wants to start a database of communities impacted, I would be happy to help. This is where public policy and tech can collide in impactful ways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania

HocusLocus 7y ago

The problem is that this condition is geographically inevitable on a floodplain with zero maintenance, or even if you get a little behind on the maintenance. And the catastrophe sets in soon after. It sounds like the town does have some lift stations (deep pits to collect sewage where it must be pumped into sealed forced mains some distance away down or over-hill, unless that area is flooded too) ... but they are in disrepair. Also storm water massively enters the sewer so even if lift stations did work they might flood every time. It would take a massive bond of magical unicorn money to fix, never mind the next phase of raising homes to avoid floods or rebuilding damaged ones. And even then, who would want a home always surrounded by dirty standing water? Perhaps it has gone past no return. What money could be found would be better spent helping to relocate the people to higher ground and condemning the land. The OK town I just left has several empty square blocks bought out by the city. For a whole town it would be disaster. There is probably no single company or entity one could lay all the blame. It was a bad idea to build there but people did anyway from desperation, when conditions were better. Then (probably during drier and more prosperous years) they doubled down on the bad idea and modern sanitary sewers were built working and maintained, but were only marginally resilient to a stretch of flood or bad economy. Even a municipality maintaining a lift station is helpless if the equipment gets repeatedly flooded out. No this is not a climate catastrophe. People have made the term cheap and useless.