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As someone who doesn't live in SF but has visited many times I'm not really sure what the issue with Market Street and cars is. It's always seemed fine to me. C
by cletus 7y ago
As someone who doesn't live in SF but has visited many times I'm not really sure what the issue with Market Street and cars is. It's always seemed fine to me. Compare this to say Oxford Street in London (where I lived at the time congestion pricing was first introduced), which was clearly an issue. But sure, I'm on board.
Although I'm not sure why taxis need an exemption. I guess it's another way to prop up a dying industry. Having caught cabs in SF before, I never will again, even if they can drive down Market Street.
The article also mentions 14th Street in NYC, which I live near and am very familiar with. This has been a contentious issue. Originally the L was planned to shutdown for 15-18 months and there was a plan to make 14th street sort of car free. I say sort of because cars were allowed to turn onto 14th Street but had to make the next right turn. This plan is now moot.
But a big concern was that it would just push car traffic to 13th and 15th streets, which are "residential".
I'm honestly not sure why 14th Street needs a dedicated busway as it does have the L. Compare this to say 23rd and 34th street that have no cross Subway (42nd does).
But the elephant in the room here is that you can still park on 14th street. If you're serious about increasing the traffic flow (of buses or otherwise) the obvious thing to do is free up 2 lanes by getting rid of the parking. But weirdly free street parking is sacrosanct in NYC politics. Why people who live in downtown Manhattan need this huge public subsidy is beyond me.
- odiroot 7y ago> Although I'm not sure why taxis need an exemption I agree. Taxis are usually one of the most dangerous and impatient drivers in the city.
- wutbrodo 7y agoI think this was just a transparently corrupt handout. I have trouble getting too worked up about it though: a car-free Market St is a dream come true incremental step.
- addicted 7y agoMaybe because people believe all this valuable public space can be better used than as a Thruway for ferrying individuals in massive steel cages from one part of town to another. Re: the 14th street busway, The “fears” about 13th and 15th street turned out to be unfounded. In the meanwhile, thousands of people who used the bus are benefitting with much faster and more reliable service (to the point that buses on 14th street are now waiting at stops because they are arriving too fast). Car traffic has basically been unaffected. Pedestrians find it much better and safer. People who live and work there have it much better with the massively reduced air and noise pollution. And you’re right that this should be replicated throughout the city. If it works on 14th street, which as you rightly point out already has a train, it will be a much bigger success on other streets. Similarly in SF besides the quality of life improvements you have reclaimed valuable space that was being given away for no good reason.
- roywiggins 7y agoMy vote is 34th Street next, but that's probably a fantasy. Getting crosstown at 34th would be so much better with a busway. It might even make the nightmare that is Herald Square/Penn Station slightly less bad.
- jrochkind1 7y agoWell, to be fair, the busses and streetcars which will still be prevalent on Market are also massive steel cages used to ferry individuals from one part of town to another. But certainly much more efficient and effective massive steel cages with regard to their use of the space, which will result in a much more pleasant public space.
- komali2 7y agoThe noise pollution thing is huge. Private car owners love their god damned horns. Beep beep. Like children. Drives me fuckin crazy. I'm at the corner of 2nd and Howard. Easily 5% of my day is spent daydreaming about ways to get those cars to shut the fuck up. Paintballs, HERF gun, signs. I'll never do anything but I'll continue to daydream my way through the honking. It's one traffic light! Just WAIT.
- emmelaich 7y agoHoly shit, you've just pinpointed what irritated me most about SF! So much beeping. In Sydney, for comparison, it's quite rare.
- darkwizard42 7y agoOh man, if you think honking in SF is bad, in NYC it’s a damn 24 hour chorus. I mean even at 4 am I have heard honking (park ave is NOT congested then so I can’t even imagine the need to honk then)
- komali2 7y agoI one time watched a disabled kids school bus stop and kneel and deploy its ramp for a kid in a wheelchair to get on, on a residential street in Brooklyn. Throughout the WHOLE process, a car behind the bus was slamming the horn. It was like 2 minutes of beeping lol.
- atyppo 7y agoI'm on 14th St most days. Have you never taken a M14A/D bus? It's much more convenient than taking the L or walking two or three avenues, especially if you already have an unlimited Metrocard. L trains on the weekend are usually too packed to fit more people on because of the 20-minute headways. Buses help to relieve some of this congestion. That being said, 23rd and 34th could also certainly use busways. NYC (meaning CBD Manhattan) is far too dense to accommodate single-pax vehicles. Luckily, we seem to be making progress toward eliminating them.
- coldpie 7y ago> As someone who doesn't live in SF but has visited many times I'm not really sure what the issue with Market Street and cars is. Funny you say that. I've been to SF about a half-dozen times for work and Market St stands out to me as a nightmare to cross on foot. Tons of fast-moving cross-traffic, cars turning across crosswalks, and tons of pedestrians fighting all that. I'm glad to hear there's less traffic there (though honestly, if I have the choice, I will also be glad if I never have to visit SF again).
- ghaff 7y agoOne of the problems with Market is that you basically have two grids coming together at an angle so you have a lot of sort of weird complex intersections. Plus it’s just a very busy and congested area that has also had lots of construction going on for ages. I used to look forward to visiting SF. I’m much more ambivalent these days.
- drdeadringer 7y agoI visit San Francisco multiple times a year and have likewise had cause to cross Market Street on foot. It has never crossed my mind that Market Street was some kind of special hell for pedestrians. It's a busy street in the middle of a city and there are cross walks. I don't know what people would otherwise expect.
- chasd00 7y agofurther, Market has some of the widest sidewalks i've ever seen.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wahern 7y ago> It's always seemed fine to me. It depends where on Market. The section where cars have been completely banned had already been highly restricted for years. It was difficult to turn onto Market east of Van Ness as at most intersections you could only cross--turns were disallowed. Most cars on Market in the Financial District were either ride sharing, tourists who got lost, or people who disobeyed a turn restriction. The "ban", as it is now, is mostly a formalism, so all the praise and hand wringing is years late. If and when the ban moves west of Van Ness, then it'll be notable. Although there are already turn restrictions at a few dangerous intersections.