6 ms·

Sure, but: "Florey had not patented penicillin, having been advised [...] that doing so would be unethical"[0]. Anyone else immediately thought: "OK, but they

Sure, but: "Florey had not patented penicillin, having been advised [...] that doing so would be unethical"[0]. Anyone else immediately thought: "OK, but they patented it, and the spin off company will presumably licence the tech for exorbitant sums, should it ever reach that phase of course, so it'll just be another expensive 1st world thing. No money? Bite the dust."? And yeah, I know, patents encourage inventions and promote discoveries, we're all the better for their existence, they are literally the best thing since, well, invention of sliced bread. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Mass_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin#Mass_production

maze-le 7y ago
I'm pretty sure that there will be reverse engineered generics with another name tag for 1/100th of the original price.
- elcomet 7y ago
  You can't sell the same molecule if they have a patent. It's not about reverse engineering.
  - Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    China and their lax patent "laws" would like to have a word with you.
    - jcranmer 7y ago
      It would still be illegal to import those generics into the US. Probably doubly so, since the FDA wouldn't be inspecting said generic drug manufacturers.
clort 7y ago
Pretty sure that government could just buy a patent like this at a price that they choose. Some countries might choose to do that, some might not. Also, patents expire after only 21 years. They have patented this molecule now, but they haven't actually got a treatment as yet, meaning that the clock is ticking. I don't know if you can copyright a molecule?
- rrtthu 7y ago
  Isn't there also the mirror molecule thing they can do to imitate patented ones?
  - montalbano 7y ago
    Not necessarily, see Thalidomide for example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160208124237.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160208124237.h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer#Medicinal_chemistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer#Medicinal_chemistry
  - darwinreally 7y ago
    Yes, many steroids have same structure but some changes and they are passed on as new steroid.
- jcranmer 7y ago
  US patent law states that "compositions of matter" (i.e., drug molecules) are patentable.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    To be fair, any physical device, like a printing press, is also a "composition of matter".
Psyladine 7y ago
>And yeah, I know, patents encourage inventions and promote discoveries, we're all the better for their existence, they are literally the best thing since, well, invention of sliced bread. "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"
Kaiyou 7y ago
No, patents pretty much only enrich someone at the expense of everyone else. Without patents and copyright we could progress much faster. Look how fast China caught up. It's not becaue they respected intellectual property, I can tell you that.
- IanDrake 7y ago
  And what are you dedicating your life to research and development for no pay now, or ever?
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    Why no pay? Copyright and patents are a pretty new invention in history. Money isn't. Just look how Hollywood developed in the early years by escaping from this whole copyright thing.
    - IanDrake 7y ago
      And who would pay you to create something new that they could not profit from? That's why.
      - Kaiyou 7y ago
        Why wouldn't they be able to profit from it? Didn't humanity profit immensely from creations before intellectual property was invented some three hundred years ago? Like with ships. Or windmills. You're not seriously suggesting people weren't able to profit from their creations prior to intellectual property? Or even that people nowadays necessarily have the ability to profit from their own creations, when in reality everyone who isn't a big company just gets bullied with lawsuits until the comply. Lawsuits can ruin you, even if you're in the right.
        IanDrake 7y ago
        I can't tell if you're just trolling me now. Three hundred years ago the world was a completely different place. We didn't have labor and environmental arbitrage like we do now. One could email IP to someone in China who can mass produce it, with lower quality, lower costs, higher environmental impact and ship it across the Pacific a month later. 300 years ago, if someone stole your windmill design and took it to china, you'd never know.
dang 7y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22190750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22190750 and marked it off topic.

maze-le 7y ago

I'm pretty sure that there will be reverse engineered generics with another name tag for 1/100th of the original price.

elcomet 7y ago
You can't sell the same molecule if they have a patent. It's not about reverse engineering.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  China and their lax patent "laws" would like to have a word with you.
  - jcranmer 7y ago
    It would still be illegal to import those generics into the US. Probably doubly so, since the FDA wouldn't be inspecting said generic drug manufacturers.

clort 7y ago

Pretty sure that government could just buy a patent like this at a price that they choose. Some countries might choose to do that, some might not. Also, patents expire after only 21 years. They have patented this molecule now, but they haven't actually got a treatment as yet, meaning that the clock is ticking. I don't know if you can copyright a molecule?

rrtthu 7y ago
Isn't there also the mirror molecule thing they can do to imitate patented ones?
- montalbano 7y ago
  Not necessarily, see Thalidomide for example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160208124237.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160208124237.h... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer#Medicinal_chemistry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer#Medicinal_chemistry
- darwinreally 7y ago
  Yes, many steroids have same structure but some changes and they are passed on as new steroid.
jcranmer 7y ago
US patent law states that "compositions of matter" (i.e., drug molecules) are patentable.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  To be fair, any physical device, like a printing press, is also a "composition of matter".

Psyladine 7y ago

>And yeah, I know, patents encourage inventions and promote discoveries, we're all the better for their existence, they are literally the best thing since, well, invention of sliced bread. "There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?"

Kaiyou 7y ago

No, patents pretty much only enrich someone at the expense of everyone else. Without patents and copyright we could progress much faster. Look how fast China caught up. It's not becaue they respected intellectual property, I can tell you that.

IanDrake 7y ago
And what are you dedicating your life to research and development for no pay now, or ever?
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  Why no pay? Copyright and patents are a pretty new invention in history. Money isn't. Just look how Hollywood developed in the early years by escaping from this whole copyright thing.
  - IanDrake 7y ago
    And who would pay you to create something new that they could not profit from? That's why.
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      Why wouldn't they be able to profit from it? Didn't humanity profit immensely from creations before intellectual property was invented some three hundred years ago? Like with ships. Or windmills. You're not seriously suggesting people weren't able to profit from their creations prior to intellectual property? Or even that people nowadays necessarily have the ability to profit from their own creations, when in reality everyone who isn't a big company just gets bullied with lawsuits until the comply. Lawsuits can ruin you, even if you're in the right.
      - IanDrake 7y ago
        I can't tell if you're just trolling me now. Three hundred years ago the world was a completely different place. We didn't have labor and environmental arbitrage like we do now. One could email IP to someone in China who can mass produce it, with lower quality, lower costs, higher environmental impact and ship it across the Pacific a month later. 300 years ago, if someone stole your windmill design and took it to china, you'd never know.

dang 7y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22190750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22190750 and marked it off topic.