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> Humans love centralization, we don't like to have things scattered around. It's in our nature Do you have any proof to back this up? And especially how a des

> Humans love centralization, we don't like to have things scattered around. It's in our nature Do you have any proof to back this up? And especially how a desire for tidiness in our daily lives would translate to large scale societal centralization? My strong suspicion is that things are centralized because of the nature of modern/neoliberal capitalism, not human nature. By the same token you could say that human nature made the Soviet Union centralized - we all saw how that went in the end...

unnouinceput 7y ago
Proof? Let's see. Didn't your grandparents kept all photos in one place? Didn't your parents send you to same school as all other kids in your street? Didn't you went to same dancing places like your friends when you started sniffing for girls (I'm assuming you're male, reverse the gender otherwise)? Don't you keep your tools in same box(es)? Like I said, our specie love centralization. Same village priest, same blacksmith, same doctor, same military outposts throughout centuries. We don't keep photos separated and scattered in different rooms in our houses. We don't school kids at home (except for very few rich who can afford). We don't have each a dancing room in our house. We don't scatter tools throughout the house. Need any more proof?
- leto_ii 7y ago
  > Need any more proof? :) yup, a lot more. I'll address your points individually: 1. > Didn't your grandparents kept all photos in one place? Perhaps, but not sure how this trickles up to societal/economic centralization. 2. > Didn't your parents send you to same school as all other kids in your street? Nope, but again, this would be an instance of societal imposition of structure, or more often due to necessity. If you live in a remote village it's hard to attend a school other than the closest. 3. > Didn't you went to same dancing places like your friends when you started sniffing for girls (I'm assuming you're male, reverse the gender otherwise)? I did, but these places were quite dispersed in space :D. In total we had probably a dozen or so over the years (I come from a big city though, might be different in towns). 4. > Don't you keep your tools in same box(es)? Yes, but again this is an instance of tidiness in daily life, not of societal centralization. To sum up, I think that it can be said that our species prefers order of some kind to pure chaos - this I agree with. I also agree that there are social network effects that cause clustering/centralization of some sort to emerge. I however don't agree that the extreme centralization that we see in the tech/internet space is inevitable or desirable. I also don't see how the natural forces we discussed can lead to such extreme centralization. FB for example built its monopoly by often acquiring/copying its competition. If this had been prevented I think people would have gladly used a broader range of social networks.
  - unnouinceput 7y ago
    OK smarty-pants, answer me this. How many e-mail addresses do you use to communicate with your social circle? Me, personally, as inherent human being, I use just one. I switched in past 2 years, slowly, from yahoo to protonmail. Do you use currently 10 at least so you can safely say you do not centralize your life too?
    - leto_ii 7y ago
      Well, it happens that I use 3 addresses currently :)) But I agree that this is uncommon. However, again, don't see how this relates to the point. The fact that a given person will likely use a single email address doesn't mean that we all have to use the same email provider. As a matter of fact we don't. Gmail is the largest, but there are many alternatives out there. Unlike for social networks for example.

unnouinceput 7y ago

Proof? Let's see. Didn't your grandparents kept all photos in one place? Didn't your parents send you to same school as all other kids in your street? Didn't you went to same dancing places like your friends when you started sniffing for girls (I'm assuming you're male, reverse the gender otherwise)? Don't you keep your tools in same box(es)? Like I said, our specie love centralization. Same village priest, same blacksmith, same doctor, same military outposts throughout centuries. We don't keep photos separated and scattered in different rooms in our houses. We don't school kids at home (except for very few rich who can afford). We don't have each a dancing room in our house. We don't scatter tools throughout the house. Need any more proof?

leto_ii 7y ago
> Need any more proof? :) yup, a lot more. I'll address your points individually: 1. > Didn't your grandparents kept all photos in one place? Perhaps, but not sure how this trickles up to societal/economic centralization. 2. > Didn't your parents send you to same school as all other kids in your street? Nope, but again, this would be an instance of societal imposition of structure, or more often due to necessity. If you live in a remote village it's hard to attend a school other than the closest. 3. > Didn't you went to same dancing places like your friends when you started sniffing for girls (I'm assuming you're male, reverse the gender otherwise)? I did, but these places were quite dispersed in space :D. In total we had probably a dozen or so over the years (I come from a big city though, might be different in towns). 4. > Don't you keep your tools in same box(es)? Yes, but again this is an instance of tidiness in daily life, not of societal centralization. To sum up, I think that it can be said that our species prefers order of some kind to pure chaos - this I agree with. I also agree that there are social network effects that cause clustering/centralization of some sort to emerge. I however don't agree that the extreme centralization that we see in the tech/internet space is inevitable or desirable. I also don't see how the natural forces we discussed can lead to such extreme centralization. FB for example built its monopoly by often acquiring/copying its competition. If this had been prevented I think people would have gladly used a broader range of social networks.
- unnouinceput 7y ago
  OK smarty-pants, answer me this. How many e-mail addresses do you use to communicate with your social circle? Me, personally, as inherent human being, I use just one. I switched in past 2 years, slowly, from yahoo to protonmail. Do you use currently 10 at least so you can safely say you do not centralize your life too?
  - leto_ii 7y ago
    Well, it happens that I use 3 addresses currently :)) But I agree that this is uncommon. However, again, don't see how this relates to the point. The fact that a given person will likely use a single email address doesn't mean that we all have to use the same email provider. As a matter of fact we don't. Gmail is the largest, but there are many alternatives out there. Unlike for social networks for example.