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As another European, I'd say a market without rules and arbiters will in no way converge to an utopia of fairness and freedom. I'm sure Google is all too happy

As another European, I'd say a market without rules and arbiters will in no way converge to an utopia of fairness and freedom. I'm sure Google is all too happy to fight with tiny European companies and eat their lunch. But only the EU can fine Google some $B and make them really think / change. I think the EU is on the right track with GDPR.

Mirioron 7y ago
>I'm sure Google is all too happy to fight with tiny European companies and eat their lunch. But only the EU can fine Google some $B and make them really think / change. >I think the EU is on the right track with GDPR. So, no to free trade? Because that sounds very much like protectionism to me. Also, the irony in your statement (and GDPR) is that it hurt EU-based ad trackers hard, but Google and Facebook gained market share.[0] Google doesn't have to eat their lunch, because GDPR already kept them out of the market. [0] https://www.datainnovation.org/2019/06/what-the-evidence-shows-about-the-impact-of-the-gdpr-after-one-year/ https://www.datainnovation.org/2019/06/what-the-evidence-sho...
- Kbelicius 7y ago
  > Also, the irony in your statement (and GDPR) is that it hurt EU-based ad trackers hard, but Google and Facebook gained market share.[0] Google doesn't have to eat their lunch, because GDPR already kept them out of the market. What your source show for GDPR looks similar to what it would show for stronger environmental regulations or better worker rights. It doesn't actually say anything about it being good or bad, just that in the short term it is costing money.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    It's bad for the businesses, but I assumed that was intended. This new regulation that's proposed sounds like they're surprised that this was the effect of GDPR.
- nottorp 7y ago
  That's because Google and Facebook are ignoring the GDPR. I wonder if the EU is determined enough to do something about that. As for EU based tracking businesses being hurt, cry me a river.
  - stiray 7y ago
    Exactly this is the reason. Google and Facebook as companies based in USA are blatantly ignoring/stepping over/workarounding the GDPR while EU based companies follow the law. And exactly due to EU tracking businesses the EU commission (and they are complaining) will be forced to do something about it. Which is actually great. Anyway, lowering profit for EU based tracking/ads businesses while Google and FB prosper, doesn't mean that the GDPR is bad. It just means that Google and FB are criminal enterprises.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      >It just means that Google and FB are criminal enterprises. I keep hearing this level of rhetoric. Every time I do I wonder what would happen if Google/FB just shut off their services in (some) EU countries. I think that this would significantly disrupt the lives of Europeans.
      - stiray 7y ago
        Well it would disrupt lives. For a month. Then alternatives would pop up and the life of EU would just continue. The reason for using google is that they have monopoly. If they would remove themself from equation, it would mean making space for someone else and believe me, a lot of EU and USA companies would work afterhours to get into 500 milion people market, and even now there are alternatives for every single google service, for years search was the only one really annoying to not have. Now even search has become terrible while ddg and qwant are becoming better and better. Actually qwant is becoming better (more relevant results) than even ddg or google, (And you can trust me, I am not using anything of google, that is not forced on me like their cloud hosting, where sites I am using are using it, for over 10 years, and I am not missing anything. But to understand that you have to try. Take a google break for 1 month, take Maps instead of G Maps, take microg lineage, take qwant/ddg instead of gsearch, take protonmail instead of gmail. Amazon/azure instead of gcloud. You will be suprised how overblown google is, how worthless the android apps are. Just take into account, that you are currently, probably, vendor locked in, you need more than a month to get out. Like a heavy drug addiction. On the other side, if dealer forces you to go "cold turkey", you would heal very fast. You don't need to say anything, just try. For your own sake.)
- antientropic 7y ago
  > So, no to free trade? Because that sounds very much like protectionism to me. Yes, absolutely. And this is why China has successful tech companies like Baidu and Europe doesn't. As long as the EU allows US giants like FAANG access to its market, it will be completely dominated by them because of the scale / home market advantage that they enjoy.

Mirioron 7y ago

>I'm sure Google is all too happy to fight with tiny European companies and eat their lunch. But only the EU can fine Google some $B and make them really think / change. >I think the EU is on the right track with GDPR. So, no to free trade? Because that sounds very much like protectionism to me. Also, the irony in your statement (and GDPR) is that it hurt EU-based ad trackers hard, but Google and Facebook gained market share.[0] Google doesn't have to eat their lunch, because GDPR already kept them out of the market. [0] https://www.datainnovation.org/2019/06/what-the-evidence-shows-about-the-impact-of-the-gdpr-after-one-year/ https://www.datainnovation.org/2019/06/what-the-evidence-sho...

Kbelicius 7y ago
> Also, the irony in your statement (and GDPR) is that it hurt EU-based ad trackers hard, but Google and Facebook gained market share.[0] Google doesn't have to eat their lunch, because GDPR already kept them out of the market. What your source show for GDPR looks similar to what it would show for stronger environmental regulations or better worker rights. It doesn't actually say anything about it being good or bad, just that in the short term it is costing money.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  It's bad for the businesses, but I assumed that was intended. This new regulation that's proposed sounds like they're surprised that this was the effect of GDPR.
nottorp 7y ago
That's because Google and Facebook are ignoring the GDPR. I wonder if the EU is determined enough to do something about that. As for EU based tracking businesses being hurt, cry me a river.
- stiray 7y ago
  Exactly this is the reason. Google and Facebook as companies based in USA are blatantly ignoring/stepping over/workarounding the GDPR while EU based companies follow the law. And exactly due to EU tracking businesses the EU commission (and they are complaining) will be forced to do something about it. Which is actually great. Anyway, lowering profit for EU based tracking/ads businesses while Google and FB prosper, doesn't mean that the GDPR is bad. It just means that Google and FB are criminal enterprises.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    >It just means that Google and FB are criminal enterprises. I keep hearing this level of rhetoric. Every time I do I wonder what would happen if Google/FB just shut off their services in (some) EU countries. I think that this would significantly disrupt the lives of Europeans.
    - stiray 7y ago
      Well it would disrupt lives. For a month. Then alternatives would pop up and the life of EU would just continue. The reason for using google is that they have monopoly. If they would remove themself from equation, it would mean making space for someone else and believe me, a lot of EU and USA companies would work afterhours to get into 500 milion people market, and even now there are alternatives for every single google service, for years search was the only one really annoying to not have. Now even search has become terrible while ddg and qwant are becoming better and better. Actually qwant is becoming better (more relevant results) than even ddg or google, (And you can trust me, I am not using anything of google, that is not forced on me like their cloud hosting, where sites I am using are using it, for over 10 years, and I am not missing anything. But to understand that you have to try. Take a google break for 1 month, take Maps instead of G Maps, take microg lineage, take qwant/ddg instead of gsearch, take protonmail instead of gmail. Amazon/azure instead of gcloud. You will be suprised how overblown google is, how worthless the android apps are. Just take into account, that you are currently, probably, vendor locked in, you need more than a month to get out. Like a heavy drug addiction. On the other side, if dealer forces you to go "cold turkey", you would heal very fast. You don't need to say anything, just try. For your own sake.)
antientropic 7y ago
> So, no to free trade? Because that sounds very much like protectionism to me. Yes, absolutely. And this is why China has successful tech companies like Baidu and Europe doesn't. As long as the EU allows US giants like FAANG access to its market, it will be completely dominated by them because of the scale / home market advantage that they enjoy.