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> When a person shows such loyalty, it can almost be off-putting! I don't think it's really as universal as that and depends a lot on the cultural norms and th
by freeflight 7y ago
> When a person shows such loyalty, it can almost be off-putting!
I don't think it's really as universal as that and depends a lot on the cultural norms and the specific manifestation of loyalty.
A good example would be the common misconception of the Samurai ethos in Western circles. Many people cite the Hagakure [0] and Bushido [1] like they are some kinds of manuals for a bad-ass Samurai making their own way through strong principles, perfectly fitting the pop-culture depictions.
When in reality, these books describe the Samurai as the most loyal retainer to his daimyo, who holds up his strict principles not out of vain/self-glorification, but because that was considered the best way to serve his master, which was considered the most important thing to them.
It's an ethos about loyalty to the point of self-sacrifice for the master's honor, which doesn't hold up very well in our modern hyper-individualistic times.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido:_The_Soul_of_Japan
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y agoThe ethos still lives on (in slowly diminishing form) in Japanese corporations, which expect loyalty to the point of self-sacrifice from their salaryman retainers.
- mirimir 7y agoSure, but there were limits, I think. One of my favorite Japanese films, Samurai Rebellion, explores the clash between principles and loyalty. It features Toshirô Mifune, and some amazing costuming. And then there's Takasi Miike's 13 Assassins :) One of my
- the_af 7y agoIt's important to note that the Hagakure and Bushido were late additions to Samurai culture -- the Hagakure in particular is a nostalgic idealization of a way of living that was almost lost by the time it was written -- and in many ways are idealizations that were seldom followed by the actual warrior class. A bit like samurai fan-fiction! Western circles often mistakenly believe the Hagakure truly embodies the Samurai spirit, when in practice most Samurai didn't follow it and weren't as selfless or honor-bound as the code would have you believe.
- Psyladine 7y agoYes, written by a wanna-be reflecting nostalgically on the past the way a romanticist today twirls a fedora for a time when 'men were men'.