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I'm curious how you see Tesla as "vertically integrated energy" company. You mean Tesla is going to run power plants and transmission lines? Both are highly re

I'm curious how you see Tesla as "vertically integrated energy" company. You mean Tesla is going to run power plants and transmission lines? Both are highly regulated, including the price you can charge, with a very low profit margin in most cases, not sure Musk would be a fan.

stellar678 7y ago
I agree that Tesla is unlikely to be interested in playing directly in a tightly regulated market as a utility. But they are happy to sell solar and storage to utilities, to the extent that power grids still provide useful services. (And I definitely believe they do...) See: https://www.tesla.com/utilities https://www.tesla.com/utilities I also think that consumer 'behind the meter' solar generation and battery (or other) storage tech will also capture a lot of value that goes to utilities right now.
slg 7y ago
Tesla's products allow for decentralized power. A Tesla solar panel feeds into a Tesla battery which powers your Tesla car and the rest of your house. That all works without Tesla building power plants or transmission lines.
- justapassenger 7y ago
  > Tesla solar panel It's actually Panasonic solar panel + SolarEdge inverter, that Tesla puts their sticker on. Tesla is just an installer of third party products, like majority of all other solar companies. That can possibly change with solar roof, but it's very early stage.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    Solar Roof Deployments have started a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRPy8UZv9V0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRPy8UZv9V0
    - xkjkls 7y ago
      And the product was announced 3.5 years ago and has been thorough 3 iterations. I’ll hold my breath this time too.
      - xedeon 7y ago
        What else you got?
        xkjkls 7y ago
        What else do you got?
- xkjkls 7y ago
  Solar is generally moving away from decentralized consumer Solar to more industrial levels given the decreased maintenance burden. Why do we believe Tesla is on the right side of this?
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    I don't know if it's fair to say that it's moving away from decentralized installations. There were a lot of subsidies for home solar when solar wasn't competitive on its own. Now the subsidies are gone but the panels cost less. In the new context a large solar installation connected to the grid is more cost effective if you need a grid for nighttime. The real question is whether batteries will make it so you don't need that. They're currently too expensive for that, but they're also declining in price. So if batteries get cheap enough that you can run your home from local panels and batteries without needing the grid, the cost of needing to keep the grid when you could otherwise not have it anymore makes the centralization lose its cost advantage.
  - natmaka 7y ago
    In many nations solar power is subsidized, more often than not in an administratively burdening way (paperwork!), and subsidies/regulation were frequently modified, discouraging the average citizen. A prominent case is France. This is IMHO at least partly crony capitalism at work. However it is only temporary and doesn't magically suppress benefits tied to local production.
    - xkjkls 7y ago
      Industrial solar generally has much less maintenance costs than distributed. There’s some exceptions, Hawaii for instance, but it’s very expensive to have to constantly maintain solar panels in peoples homes in ways that industrial solar isn’t
      - natmaka 7y ago
        Many setups I saw (PV) are mainly maintained by being washed by rain, and I fail to understand why the maintenance of a (non obsolete) home solar panel would be expensive (neglecting vandalism/theft)(?) Moreover energy produced by solar panels in homes is locally consumed, therefore there is no maintenance (nor any non-neglectable cost or loss) related to distribution (they are non neglectable).

stellar678 7y ago

I agree that Tesla is unlikely to be interested in playing directly in a tightly regulated market as a utility. But they are happy to sell solar and storage to utilities, to the extent that power grids still provide useful services. (And I definitely believe they do...) See: https://www.tesla.com/utilities https://www.tesla.com/utilities I also think that consumer 'behind the meter' solar generation and battery (or other) storage tech will also capture a lot of value that goes to utilities right now.

slg 7y ago

Tesla's products allow for decentralized power. A Tesla solar panel feeds into a Tesla battery which powers your Tesla car and the rest of your house. That all works without Tesla building power plants or transmission lines.

justapassenger 7y ago
> Tesla solar panel It's actually Panasonic solar panel + SolarEdge inverter, that Tesla puts their sticker on. Tesla is just an installer of third party products, like majority of all other solar companies. That can possibly change with solar roof, but it's very early stage.
- xedeon 7y ago
  Solar Roof Deployments have started a few weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRPy8UZv9V0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRPy8UZv9V0
  - xkjkls 7y ago
    And the product was announced 3.5 years ago and has been thorough 3 iterations. I’ll hold my breath this time too.
    - xedeon 7y ago
      What else you got?
      - xkjkls 7y ago
        What else do you got?
xkjkls 7y ago
Solar is generally moving away from decentralized consumer Solar to more industrial levels given the decreased maintenance burden. Why do we believe Tesla is on the right side of this?
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  I don't know if it's fair to say that it's moving away from decentralized installations. There were a lot of subsidies for home solar when solar wasn't competitive on its own. Now the subsidies are gone but the panels cost less. In the new context a large solar installation connected to the grid is more cost effective if you need a grid for nighttime. The real question is whether batteries will make it so you don't need that. They're currently too expensive for that, but they're also declining in price. So if batteries get cheap enough that you can run your home from local panels and batteries without needing the grid, the cost of needing to keep the grid when you could otherwise not have it anymore makes the centralization lose its cost advantage.
- natmaka 7y ago
  In many nations solar power is subsidized, more often than not in an administratively burdening way (paperwork!), and subsidies/regulation were frequently modified, discouraging the average citizen. A prominent case is France. This is IMHO at least partly crony capitalism at work. However it is only temporary and doesn't magically suppress benefits tied to local production.
  - xkjkls 7y ago
    Industrial solar generally has much less maintenance costs than distributed. There’s some exceptions, Hawaii for instance, but it’s very expensive to have to constantly maintain solar panels in peoples homes in ways that industrial solar isn’t
    - natmaka 7y ago
      Many setups I saw (PV) are mainly maintained by being washed by rain, and I fail to understand why the maintenance of a (non obsolete) home solar panel would be expensive (neglecting vandalism/theft)(?) Moreover energy produced by solar panels in homes is locally consumed, therefore there is no maintenance (nor any non-neglectable cost or loss) related to distribution (they are non neglectable).