10 ms·

It would be nice if I could select the location manually, since I don't like sharing my location directly by a prompt. When I got the location permission reque

It would be nice if I could select the location manually, since I don't like sharing my location directly by a prompt. When I got the location permission request I denied it and then it says there were no sightings available for the next 5 days :(

modeless 7y ago
If you deny the location permission it uses geoip instead. If the geoip location is incorrect there's a "Change Location" link you can use.
- sedatk 7y ago
  Perhaps it could be better other way around. Start with GeoIP and add an "Improve Location" option. That way more people would enable it.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    It'd arguably be best to offer explicit choices to users: * manually entered location * IP address based geoip * location permission The site doesn't work at all for me, even if I give location permission. Because that's disabled in Firefox.
    - modeless 7y ago
      Those choices are all present, and the site works fine with location disabled. I test that.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        OK, I navigate to the site in Firefox 60.3.0esr (64-bit) in Debian, and allow everything in NoScript. Then I see this: > See Starlink > Click to search for viewing times at your location. So I click, and see a popup: > Will you allow james.darpinian.com to access your location? So I click on "Allow Location Access". Then I see "Loading", with a GIF. But nothing ever loads. Checking about:config, I see that NoScript likely added these: > capability.policy.maonoscript.sites modified string [numerous domains] > noscript.untrusted modified string [numerous domains] I get the same result if I don't allow location access. That's all I know offhand. But I'll be happy to check more carefully, if you like.
        modeless 7y ago
        > Firefox 60 It's the old browser, not anything to do with your privacy settings. Sorry, when you decide to use an old and uncommon browser version the price you pay is that sites aren't going to be testing compatibility with it.
        mirimir 7y ago
        Come on, that's not much more than a year old. > Firefox ESR > October 23, 2018
        modeless 7y ago
        Firefox 60 is from May 2018. It's 12 major versions behind. You may not like it, but it's a fact that web browsers change quickly these days. Mozilla may support ESR for a year but I don't. This is a side project and my test matrix is already too large; I don't have time to test uncommon versions of each browser.
        mirimir 7y ago
        OK, fair enough. And it is your site. I'm just a little surprised that Firefox would have changed enough since last May to break your site. And there's also the other tweaks I've made. For example, I don't allow WebGL or WebRTC. And I spoof referrer to a site's root. Plus other stuff that I don't recall offhand. But anyway, now I'm curious, so I'll test in some otherf VMs, with different browsers.
        jlgaddis 7y ago
        The site doesn't work at all on the iPad I'm reading HN with right now, but I'm not complaining about it because it's running iOS 10.0.1. I expect lots of sites to not work correctly -- and they often don't!
        mirimir 7y ago
        I wasn't really complaining. I just mentioned it. And that was unnecessary, and distracted from my real point. I only mentioned it to explain why I couldn't see behavior after answering the popup about location permission.
  - asutekku 7y ago
    Most users will let the site use their device’s gps. Having the first step to be ”input your gps coordinates” would alienate a HUGE portion of the possible users.
    - slackfan 7y ago
      "Enter your postal code" generally works about as well though.
      - modeless 7y ago
        The site's most important feature is Street View, and a postal code doesn't allow Street View to work. Neither does geoip. I used to display only the 3D globe by default, with a gigantic bright green button to switch to street view. The majority of people never saw the Street View feature even though it was only one button press away. The button even had an animated effect to draw attention. If you also had to type in some text before seeing Street View, hardly anyone would bother.
  - skinnymuch 7y ago
    I don’t have data backing this, but I can’t imagine the vast majority of people aren’t totally fine giving their location to a site like this if they’re interested. Your way seems like it just adds a step and possible side effects like people thinking less of the site for not having their correct location or not seeing the improve location option after being turned off, etc.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
allovernow 7y ago
Yes this was my immediate thought. Especially if I want to check multiple locations for e.g. family. When I declined to share location I got an exception. ...suddenly I'm shy about listing my finger printable browser details online. I'll tell you I'm using brave. I still can't use the app because the location denial is permanent, so I'll have to clear something in the browser...might be a bug worth addressing. Edit 2: Jesus Christ man I had no idea I was giving you my fucking address. That's a little too granular for my taste, a warning would be nice. You could just use the zip code or prompt for the address, but seeing Google go straight to my address in streetview really rubs me the wrong way. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but it looks like you're harvesting PII.
- thefreeman 7y ago
  The address is used to show you a google street view pointing in the exact direction and part of the sky the satellites will cross. It's a super useful feature because it would otherwise be really hard to tell what angle or what part of the sky to watch. And accusing the guy of harvesting PII? Get a grip.
  - allovernow 7y ago
    Look I can't edit the comment now but this isn't the kind of information that could be collected without the warning. Especially since an address with an IP can be deanonymizing. I didn't click the "notify me" button but I imagine it's asking for either a phone number or an email. If this is truly innocent I'm sorry for my reaction, but you should be asking people first, given the current state of advertisement and surveillance on the net. We both read HN. It was a nice idea though.
    - oarsinsync 7y ago
      > Edit 2: Jesus Christ man I had no idea I was giving you my fucking address. That's a little too granular for my taste So the accuracy of the location being provided depends entirely on your device. From a website (or any other app) perspective, they simply request the client provide it's location. Now if you happen to have a strong GPS lock on your device with 5m or less accuracy, that's not something the website (or app) knows ahead of time. > If this is truly innocent I'm sorry for my reaction, but you should be asking people first, given the current state of advertisement and surveillance on the net. We both read HN. Not trying to victim blame here, but if you're claiming more technical audience and concerns about privacy, are you genuinely unaware that this is how location services and permissions works? If so, I guess this is a painful learning experience for you. You're gonna have a bad time now as you think about how many different apps you've given location permissions too, because a lot of those apps will have a bunch of third party trackers involved that are connecting your IP, location, along with device identifier and any other information they can use to add to a much larger database to identify exactly who you are and everyone you know (think I'm exagerating on the last part? Have you ever shared your contacts list with an app like Whatsapp to find other contacts?) The internet today sucks. I don't think this particular author is the person you want to be pooping hard on, they're highly unlikely to be part of the problem.

modeless 7y ago

If you deny the location permission it uses geoip instead. If the geoip location is incorrect there's a "Change Location" link you can use.

sedatk 7y ago
Perhaps it could be better other way around. Start with GeoIP and add an "Improve Location" option. That way more people would enable it.
- mirimir 7y ago
  It'd arguably be best to offer explicit choices to users: * manually entered location * IP address based geoip * location permission The site doesn't work at all for me, even if I give location permission. Because that's disabled in Firefox.
  - modeless 7y ago
    Those choices are all present, and the site works fine with location disabled. I test that.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      OK, I navigate to the site in Firefox 60.3.0esr (64-bit) in Debian, and allow everything in NoScript. Then I see this: > See Starlink > Click to search for viewing times at your location. So I click, and see a popup: > Will you allow james.darpinian.com to access your location? So I click on "Allow Location Access". Then I see "Loading", with a GIF. But nothing ever loads. Checking about:config, I see that NoScript likely added these: > capability.policy.maonoscript.sites modified string [numerous domains] > noscript.untrusted modified string [numerous domains] I get the same result if I don't allow location access. That's all I know offhand. But I'll be happy to check more carefully, if you like.
      - modeless 7y ago
        > Firefox 60 It's the old browser, not anything to do with your privacy settings. Sorry, when you decide to use an old and uncommon browser version the price you pay is that sites aren't going to be testing compatibility with it.
        mirimir 7y ago
        Come on, that's not much more than a year old. > Firefox ESR > October 23, 2018
        modeless 7y ago
        Firefox 60 is from May 2018. It's 12 major versions behind. You may not like it, but it's a fact that web browsers change quickly these days. Mozilla may support ESR for a year but I don't. This is a side project and my test matrix is already too large; I don't have time to test uncommon versions of each browser.
        mirimir 7y ago
        OK, fair enough. And it is your site. I'm just a little surprised that Firefox would have changed enough since last May to break your site. And there's also the other tweaks I've made. For example, I don't allow WebGL or WebRTC. And I spoof referrer to a site's root. Plus other stuff that I don't recall offhand. But anyway, now I'm curious, so I'll test in some otherf VMs, with different browsers.
        jlgaddis 7y ago
        The site doesn't work at all on the iPad I'm reading HN with right now, but I'm not complaining about it because it's running iOS 10.0.1. I expect lots of sites to not work correctly -- and they often don't!
        mirimir 7y ago
        I wasn't really complaining. I just mentioned it. And that was unnecessary, and distracted from my real point. I only mentioned it to explain why I couldn't see behavior after answering the popup about location permission.
- asutekku 7y ago
  Most users will let the site use their device’s gps. Having the first step to be ”input your gps coordinates” would alienate a HUGE portion of the possible users.
  - slackfan 7y ago
    "Enter your postal code" generally works about as well though.
    - modeless 7y ago
      The site's most important feature is Street View, and a postal code doesn't allow Street View to work. Neither does geoip. I used to display only the 3D globe by default, with a gigantic bright green button to switch to street view. The majority of people never saw the Street View feature even though it was only one button press away. The button even had an animated effect to draw attention. If you also had to type in some text before seeing Street View, hardly anyone would bother.
- skinnymuch 7y ago
  I don’t have data backing this, but I can’t imagine the vast majority of people aren’t totally fine giving their location to a site like this if they’re interested. Your way seems like it just adds a step and possible side effects like people thinking less of the site for not having their correct location or not seeing the improve location option after being turned off, etc.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

allovernow 7y ago

Yes this was my immediate thought. Especially if I want to check multiple locations for e.g. family. When I declined to share location I got an exception. ...suddenly I'm shy about listing my finger printable browser details online. I'll tell you I'm using brave. I still can't use the app because the location denial is permanent, so I'll have to clear something in the browser...might be a bug worth addressing. Edit 2: Jesus Christ man I had no idea I was giving you my fucking address. That's a little too granular for my taste, a warning would be nice. You could just use the zip code or prompt for the address, but seeing Google go straight to my address in streetview really rubs me the wrong way. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but it looks like you're harvesting PII.

thefreeman 7y ago
The address is used to show you a google street view pointing in the exact direction and part of the sky the satellites will cross. It's a super useful feature because it would otherwise be really hard to tell what angle or what part of the sky to watch. And accusing the guy of harvesting PII? Get a grip.
- allovernow 7y ago
  Look I can't edit the comment now but this isn't the kind of information that could be collected without the warning. Especially since an address with an IP can be deanonymizing. I didn't click the "notify me" button but I imagine it's asking for either a phone number or an email. If this is truly innocent I'm sorry for my reaction, but you should be asking people first, given the current state of advertisement and surveillance on the net. We both read HN. It was a nice idea though.
  - oarsinsync 7y ago
    > Edit 2: Jesus Christ man I had no idea I was giving you my fucking address. That's a little too granular for my taste So the accuracy of the location being provided depends entirely on your device. From a website (or any other app) perspective, they simply request the client provide it's location. Now if you happen to have a strong GPS lock on your device with 5m or less accuracy, that's not something the website (or app) knows ahead of time. > If this is truly innocent I'm sorry for my reaction, but you should be asking people first, given the current state of advertisement and surveillance on the net. We both read HN. Not trying to victim blame here, but if you're claiming more technical audience and concerns about privacy, are you genuinely unaware that this is how location services and permissions works? If so, I guess this is a painful learning experience for you. You're gonna have a bad time now as you think about how many different apps you've given location permissions too, because a lot of those apps will have a bunch of third party trackers involved that are connecting your IP, location, along with device identifier and any other information they can use to add to a much larger database to identify exactly who you are and everyone you know (think I'm exagerating on the last part? Have you ever shared your contacts list with an app like Whatsapp to find other contacts?) The internet today sucks. I don't think this particular author is the person you want to be pooping hard on, they're highly unlikely to be part of the problem.