7 ms·

A good part of it is their absolutely massive 30% cut. The only reason they get away with it is that when Apple's app store first came out, most of the online c

by bostik 7y ago

A good part of it is their absolutely massive 30% cut. The only reason they get away with it is that when Apple's app store first came out, most of the online casual applications were games. Hosted by a few gargantuan aggregators (cough newgrounds cough) who charged 70%+ of the revenue for their ... service. Against a backdrop of above-criminal-rates extortion, 30% must have looked like a bargain. To put these numbers in context, very good agents get 15%.

tombert 7y ago
Forgive me a bit, since I haven't been on Newgrounds since before the iPhone came out, but did Newgrounds ever charge to host on their site? Did they allow you to monetize your games?
- grawprog 7y ago
  https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/monetization https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/monetizati...
scarface74 7y ago
Most of the money being made on the App Store is for in app consumables from pay to win games. You’ll have to forgive me for not shedding a tear for them. I hope Apple Arcade takes a huge chunk of their revenue. It’s not indy developers trying to make a living. The other types of apps that use to make Apple a lot of money are streaming services. But most of those are now not allowing you to do in app purchases. I’m looking through all of my apps, and I only have two or three that I actually paid money via in app purchases and those were to turn off ads. All of the rest I had to buy subscriptions on the app makers websites or buy content in the case of Amazon for Kindle books.
- dessant 7y ago
  Though we should shed some tears for those who just try to sell their apps and make a living, after already being ripped off for expensive equipment and an annual developer account fee. If Apple would care, it would be possible to charge a smaller commission based on the app category, and to vaive annual developer account fees for verified open source developers.
  - rbrtl 7y ago
    Apple gear is no longer as comparatively expensive as it used to be -- they aren't ripping you off, they have put a lot of work into delivering different 'gear' to what's available in the rest of the market. Shed a tear for people who buy HP and need a new laptop every year or two. I'm typing this on a 7-year old MacBook Pro, which works better than the day I bought it. Hosting an app marketplace is not a free endeavour either. They host infrastructure to facilitate all of this, and they review app code in an attempt to prevent malware being distributed by underhanded developers. Maybe they could vary the price based on the use case, but why should they? No one is compelled to publish on the App Store, why complicate their business model to give themselves more work for less money.
    - dessant 7y ago
      > Apple gear is no longer as comparatively expensive as it used to be It still is if one can't afford it. Apple could provide macOS and iOS VirtualBox images for developers to build and test their apps. > why complicate their business model to give themselves more work for less money. Because that's the right thing to do when you shut out indie developers using expensive equipment and annual developer fees. Developers who aren't affluent or don't get into app development solely for profit may stay away from the Apple ecosystem, and that's a loss for everyone. Apple is now also selling access to their user base on macOS. Apps distributed outside the Mac App Store must be notarized to run on macOS, which requires a developer account ($99/yr). Yes, workarounds do exist for now, but all of them are inconvenient enough that they seriously hurt the distribution of open source apps, unless maintainers pay up.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        If you can’t afford $900 for a Mac Mini and a 1 year developer license and can’t sell anyone on letting you borrow the money, is it really a great idea that would stand out among the million of apps out there? Also, you don’t have to buy a Mac. You could always pay Mac Mini Colo $80 a month and develop remotely.
        7y ago
- bsaul 7y ago
  As a developer of a pro app in a niche market trying to make a living on the app store, i can tell you those 30% are what prevents me from working full time on my app.
  - rbrtl 7y ago
    Could you elaborate on this a little? I understand that Apple only takes 30% the first year and then they drop their commission to 15%. Is the commission on the purchase price of the app what makes it too expensive, or is it too great a cut out of your in app revenue?
    - generalpf 7y ago
      That drop on commission is only for app subscriptions that continue longer than a year.
      - rbrtl 7y ago
        Thanks! I hadn't spotted that...
  - scarface74 7y ago
    If your app was such a great one, you couldn’t convince your customers to pay enough to make up the difference?
    - sls 7y ago
      Marking things up 43% generally impacts sales.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        If it is a “specialized”,”pro” niche app people are usually willing to spend more. It’s hard to make a living selling a niche app to price sensitive people. Also if it is a niche app, with a small addressable market, how do you continue making money on it since their is no facility for upgrade pricing - especially since you have to keep releasing updates to support newer devices and new screen sizes?

by bostik 7y ago

tombert 7y ago

Forgive me a bit, since I haven't been on Newgrounds since before the iPhone came out, but did Newgrounds ever charge to host on their site? Did they allow you to monetize your games?

grawprog 7y ago
https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/monetization https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/creator-resources/monetizati...

scarface74 7y ago

Most of the money being made on the App Store is for in app consumables from pay to win games. You’ll have to forgive me for not shedding a tear for them. I hope Apple Arcade takes a huge chunk of their revenue. It’s not indy developers trying to make a living. The other types of apps that use to make Apple a lot of money are streaming services. But most of those are now not allowing you to do in app purchases. I’m looking through all of my apps, and I only have two or three that I actually paid money via in app purchases and those were to turn off ads. All of the rest I had to buy subscriptions on the app makers websites or buy content in the case of Amazon for Kindle books.

dessant 7y ago
Though we should shed some tears for those who just try to sell their apps and make a living, after already being ripped off for expensive equipment and an annual developer account fee. If Apple would care, it would be possible to charge a smaller commission based on the app category, and to vaive annual developer account fees for verified open source developers.
- rbrtl 7y ago
  Apple gear is no longer as comparatively expensive as it used to be -- they aren't ripping you off, they have put a lot of work into delivering different 'gear' to what's available in the rest of the market. Shed a tear for people who buy HP and need a new laptop every year or two. I'm typing this on a 7-year old MacBook Pro, which works better than the day I bought it. Hosting an app marketplace is not a free endeavour either. They host infrastructure to facilitate all of this, and they review app code in an attempt to prevent malware being distributed by underhanded developers. Maybe they could vary the price based on the use case, but why should they? No one is compelled to publish on the App Store, why complicate their business model to give themselves more work for less money.
  - dessant 7y ago
    > Apple gear is no longer as comparatively expensive as it used to be It still is if one can't afford it. Apple could provide macOS and iOS VirtualBox images for developers to build and test their apps. > why complicate their business model to give themselves more work for less money. Because that's the right thing to do when you shut out indie developers using expensive equipment and annual developer fees. Developers who aren't affluent or don't get into app development solely for profit may stay away from the Apple ecosystem, and that's a loss for everyone. Apple is now also selling access to their user base on macOS. Apps distributed outside the Mac App Store must be notarized to run on macOS, which requires a developer account ($99/yr). Yes, workarounds do exist for now, but all of them are inconvenient enough that they seriously hurt the distribution of open source apps, unless maintainers pay up.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      If you can’t afford $900 for a Mac Mini and a 1 year developer license and can’t sell anyone on letting you borrow the money, is it really a great idea that would stand out among the million of apps out there? Also, you don’t have to buy a Mac. You could always pay Mac Mini Colo $80 a month and develop remotely.
      - 7y ago
bsaul 7y ago
As a developer of a pro app in a niche market trying to make a living on the app store, i can tell you those 30% are what prevents me from working full time on my app.
- rbrtl 7y ago
  Could you elaborate on this a little? I understand that Apple only takes 30% the first year and then they drop their commission to 15%. Is the commission on the purchase price of the app what makes it too expensive, or is it too great a cut out of your in app revenue?
  - generalpf 7y ago
    That drop on commission is only for app subscriptions that continue longer than a year.
    - rbrtl 7y ago
      Thanks! I hadn't spotted that...
- scarface74 7y ago
  If your app was such a great one, you couldn’t convince your customers to pay enough to make up the difference?
  - sls 7y ago
    Marking things up 43% generally impacts sales.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      If it is a “specialized”,”pro” niche app people are usually willing to spend more. It’s hard to make a living selling a niche app to price sensitive people. Also if it is a niche app, with a small addressable market, how do you continue making money on it since their is no facility for upgrade pricing - especially since you have to keep releasing updates to support newer devices and new screen sizes?