6 ms·

New brain networks come ‘online’ during adolescence

114 points by hhs 7y ago

Hydraulix989 7y ago
I remember suddenly really liking listening to music when I became an adolescent. I wonder if my then new-found emotional appreciation for music was related.
- jvm_ 7y ago
  I've heard the theory that the music you like/hear/is new to you at 14 is the music that you stick with for life.
  - robodale 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure I'm not listening to Poison's "Talk Dirty to Me" for the rest of my life.
    - yCombLinks 7y ago
      Your loss
  - Avamander 7y ago
    I literally didn't listen to any music voluntarily at that age and I can't say I listen to anything that was available back then, now.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    I'm also very curious at what makes young kids stick to "new" genre. And could you make an old song (one that doesn't age much if possible) stick to them as if it was the new hotness. Or maybe it's reinforced by society reacting to it as a new fad too.
    - flycaliguy 7y ago
      Oh for sure, young kids get hooked into all sorts of stuff. Old stuff, foreign stuff. You don’t see it in the culture but interview a class of kids and there are always odd balls.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
yters 7y ago
Teen used to be the old adult. Today's 'teens' used to be admirals and generals.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  Maybe not admirals and generals, but perhaps captains or field officers. Eg Peter Noel Wylie-Buckwell.[0] From the Civil War era there's Arthur MacArthur Jr who made Captain by the age of 21. If you were to count brevetted ranks then he was Lieutenant Colonel at 19.[1] [0] https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55967860/peter-noel_wylie-buckwell#source https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55967860/peter-noel_wyli... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_MacArthur_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_MacArthur_Jr.
  - sneakernets 7y ago
    I think we need to draw a line in the sand though and say fast, forced development doesn't work on humans as well as some imply it does. You cannot make the brain "grow faster"; that's not how humans work.
    - saltyfamiliar 7y ago
      You can influence the shape in which a young brain grows much more easily and to a deeper extent than you can a mature brain. The neural systems one develops during adolescence will determine a lot of their psychological traits and the course of their life.
  - jotm 7y ago
    OK but what is your and OPs point? For every "teen" Captain there were like thousands of privates, not to mention farmers, deck hands, apprentices, other workers. And their offspring are the majority...
    - yters 7y ago
      'teenager' is a modern construct, probably to limit the labor market.
bitwize 7y ago
I remember very strongly fancying a girl when I was in high school, and that's exactly how I described it at the time: it was as if a new subsystem had "come online" enabling me to feel more complex emotions. I compared it to Lt. Commander Data's emotion chip. Interesting to see empirical neurological grounds for what I subjectively felt happening at the time.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  was it something physical or emotional ? by that I mean did you never have deep feelings for girls in primary school or else ?
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    I dunno if this can be described as deep feelings but I clearly felt limerence ("falling in love") for girls of all the ages (from my age up to 20 years more old) since when I was 5. In fact I can't even say much has changed in me since then besides emotional (and, obviously, analytical too) intelligence growth and experience accumulation. I don't feel anything I couldn't feel when I was 5, I just understand the things more and know better what to do.
  - Psyladine 7y ago
    Speaking anecdotally, I long admired girls in primary school, but that's all it was, a "longing". Not to be coy but like a dog chasing a car I'm not sure what I would have done with one if I'd caught up to her. Probably act like I would towards any peer in my age group. In adolescence I wrote a pretty amusing in my older years summary of the feelings I was experiencing during my first 'puppy love', what I'd describe today as intoxication or overwhelming and disproportionate delight.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      I too had a longing and almost impossible to word admiration for girls beauty. Teenagehood only made it a sort of goal to chase and turn this into reality.. but the feelings weren't deeper. And tbh sex is another feeling on the side but it's not deeper than the previous sentiment.
mudcrab 7y ago
Interesting article. Any new emotion or new emotional state creates a new space for new memories, and adolescence provides new emotions. Particular memories are easier to retrieve when in the emotional state they were formed. Maybe this explains why it can be hard to beat depression - pleasant memories are more difficult to retrieve and negative emotions easily surface. First few times trying weed it felt like micro-tarzan swinging from a familiar branch of neurons to a whole new area of neurons. Possibly why magic mushrooms and the like are being investigated as a legit therapy.
- Pete_D 7y ago
  Depression has quite a few weird effects on memory, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_Autobiographical_Memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_Autobiographical_M...
thrwaway69 7y ago
When everyone's talking about how something improved, I feel like my brain degraded on the other hand, lol. I don't have a sharp memory or energy anymore. I get lost often in thoughts and can't think more clearly if something needs an immediate black-white response. I have gotten worse at communication. I would trade being asexual for increased brain efficiency, too.
- pdamoc 7y ago
  Your brain is rewiring in order to expand the domain of analysis. It is rewiring for dealing with higher levels of complexity. Take a look at the bellow video for a short explanation of the evolution of the processes involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4LTqRJDW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4LTqRJDW8
- jcims 7y ago
  How old are you? Have you ever sought a diagnosis for anything? You sound like me, 46yo with basically lifelong ADD that wasn't diagnosed until a couple of years ago. Haven't found any silver bullets yet but your baseline can improve if you're in this club.
  - thrwaway69 7y ago
    16. I am diagnosed with that and few other issues but haven't received much help outside of that (family not educated enough and kind of eh). I feel very sacrificial because I have to resist the urge to focus on things ignoring clear health problems and self care. I think that's the biggest problem I have right now. I can't consistently stick to anything in the slightest. I can manage it by sheer self control but that isn't fun and backfires with bipolar/anxiety because you need to have motivation in order to incentivise yourself.
    - Jaruzel 7y ago
      It will get better. My teens were exactly the same. If your family isn't being supportive, trying seeing your GP directly (local doctor; I don't know what country you are in) and see if they will help you. Find some people who you can safely share your experience with. Remember that you are not alone, and that most of this is probably temporary. Modern opinion is that it's not until about about age 24 that your brain chemistry settles down. Disclaimer: I also suffer from anxiety (and depression) and live on pills to stabilise me out, so I'm not talking out of my arse here :)
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
So we already know that brain forms new neuron connections all the time (or during sleep), so of course if there are new connections, there will technically be new networks? So the brain forms new networks each time we learn anything new... So how is this any different?
jfax 7y ago
I know a lot of people are going to talk about their experience of fancying the other sex, etc. I would like to say however that for a while now, I've repeatedly reminded my friends that 'gained sentience' when I first watched WALL-E. It made me feel emotions I never had before, I couldn't put words to what a novel experience it was. It's where I firmly demarcate my 'pre-sentient' and 'post-sentient' life. This actually sparked a discussion among my group of friends, some identifying a moment when someone in their life died, other putting it down to a single panic attack. So yeah, something biologically 'coming online' seems legit.
- Angostura 7y ago
  Fascinating, would you mind me asking at what age you watch Wall-E? My teenage daughter simply won't watch it again - too 'totes emoshe'.
pgt 7y ago
Louis CK has a bit about his earliest memory as he was 'coming online': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q10C5Zp1_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q10C5Zp1_Q
type-2 7y ago
I never experienced this...

114 points by hhs 7y ago

I remember suddenly really liking listening to music when I became an adolescent. I wonder if my then new-found emotional appreciation for music was related.

jvm_ 7y ago
I've heard the theory that the music you like/hear/is new to you at 14 is the music that you stick with for life.
- robodale 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure I'm not listening to Poison's "Talk Dirty to Me" for the rest of my life.
  - yCombLinks 7y ago
    Your loss
- Avamander 7y ago
  I literally didn't listen to any music voluntarily at that age and I can't say I listen to anything that was available back then, now.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  I'm also very curious at what makes young kids stick to "new" genre. And could you make an old song (one that doesn't age much if possible) stick to them as if it was the new hotness. Or maybe it's reinforced by society reacting to it as a new fad too.
  - flycaliguy 7y ago
    Oh for sure, young kids get hooked into all sorts of stuff. Old stuff, foreign stuff. You don’t see it in the culture but interview a class of kids and there are always odd balls.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

yters 7y ago

Teen used to be the old adult. Today's 'teens' used to be admirals and generals.

Mirioron 7y ago
Maybe not admirals and generals, but perhaps captains or field officers. Eg Peter Noel Wylie-Buckwell.[0] From the Civil War era there's Arthur MacArthur Jr who made Captain by the age of 21. If you were to count brevetted ranks then he was Lieutenant Colonel at 19.[1] [0] https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55967860/peter-noel_wylie-buckwell#source https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55967860/peter-noel_wyli... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_MacArthur_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_MacArthur_Jr.
- sneakernets 7y ago
  I think we need to draw a line in the sand though and say fast, forced development doesn't work on humans as well as some imply it does. You cannot make the brain "grow faster"; that's not how humans work.
  - saltyfamiliar 7y ago
    You can influence the shape in which a young brain grows much more easily and to a deeper extent than you can a mature brain. The neural systems one develops during adolescence will determine a lot of their psychological traits and the course of their life.
- jotm 7y ago
  OK but what is your and OPs point? For every "teen" Captain there were like thousands of privates, not to mention farmers, deck hands, apprentices, other workers. And their offspring are the majority...
  - yters 7y ago
    'teenager' is a modern construct, probably to limit the labor market.

bitwize 7y ago

I remember very strongly fancying a girl when I was in high school, and that's exactly how I described it at the time: it was as if a new subsystem had "come online" enabling me to feel more complex emotions. I compared it to Lt. Commander Data's emotion chip. Interesting to see empirical neurological grounds for what I subjectively felt happening at the time.

agumonkey 7y ago
was it something physical or emotional ? by that I mean did you never have deep feelings for girls in primary school or else ?
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  I dunno if this can be described as deep feelings but I clearly felt limerence ("falling in love") for girls of all the ages (from my age up to 20 years more old) since when I was 5. In fact I can't even say much has changed in me since then besides emotional (and, obviously, analytical too) intelligence growth and experience accumulation. I don't feel anything I couldn't feel when I was 5, I just understand the things more and know better what to do.
- Psyladine 7y ago
  Speaking anecdotally, I long admired girls in primary school, but that's all it was, a "longing". Not to be coy but like a dog chasing a car I'm not sure what I would have done with one if I'd caught up to her. Probably act like I would towards any peer in my age group. In adolescence I wrote a pretty amusing in my older years summary of the feelings I was experiencing during my first 'puppy love', what I'd describe today as intoxication or overwhelming and disproportionate delight.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    I too had a longing and almost impossible to word admiration for girls beauty. Teenagehood only made it a sort of goal to chase and turn this into reality.. but the feelings weren't deeper. And tbh sex is another feeling on the side but it's not deeper than the previous sentiment.

mudcrab 7y ago

Interesting article. Any new emotion or new emotional state creates a new space for new memories, and adolescence provides new emotions. Particular memories are easier to retrieve when in the emotional state they were formed. Maybe this explains why it can be hard to beat depression - pleasant memories are more difficult to retrieve and negative emotions easily surface. First few times trying weed it felt like micro-tarzan swinging from a familiar branch of neurons to a whole new area of neurons. Possibly why magic mushrooms and the like are being investigated as a legit therapy.

Pete_D 7y ago
Depression has quite a few weird effects on memory, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_Autobiographical_Memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overgeneral_Autobiographical_M...

thrwaway69 7y ago

When everyone's talking about how something improved, I feel like my brain degraded on the other hand, lol. I don't have a sharp memory or energy anymore. I get lost often in thoughts and can't think more clearly if something needs an immediate black-white response. I have gotten worse at communication. I would trade being asexual for increased brain efficiency, too.

pdamoc 7y ago
Your brain is rewiring in order to expand the domain of analysis. It is rewiring for dealing with higher levels of complexity. Take a look at the bellow video for a short explanation of the evolution of the processes involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4LTqRJDW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4LTqRJDW8
jcims 7y ago
How old are you? Have you ever sought a diagnosis for anything? You sound like me, 46yo with basically lifelong ADD that wasn't diagnosed until a couple of years ago. Haven't found any silver bullets yet but your baseline can improve if you're in this club.
- thrwaway69 7y ago
  16. I am diagnosed with that and few other issues but haven't received much help outside of that (family not educated enough and kind of eh). I feel very sacrificial because I have to resist the urge to focus on things ignoring clear health problems and self care. I think that's the biggest problem I have right now. I can't consistently stick to anything in the slightest. I can manage it by sheer self control but that isn't fun and backfires with bipolar/anxiety because you need to have motivation in order to incentivise yourself.
  - Jaruzel 7y ago
    It will get better. My teens were exactly the same. If your family isn't being supportive, trying seeing your GP directly (local doctor; I don't know what country you are in) and see if they will help you. Find some people who you can safely share your experience with. Remember that you are not alone, and that most of this is probably temporary. Modern opinion is that it's not until about about age 24 that your brain chemistry settles down. Disclaimer: I also suffer from anxiety (and depression) and live on pills to stabilise me out, so I'm not talking out of my arse here :)

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

So we already know that brain forms new neuron connections all the time (or during sleep), so of course if there are new connections, there will technically be new networks? So the brain forms new networks each time we learn anything new... So how is this any different?

jfax 7y ago

I know a lot of people are going to talk about their experience of fancying the other sex, etc. I would like to say however that for a while now, I've repeatedly reminded my friends that 'gained sentience' when I first watched WALL-E. It made me feel emotions I never had before, I couldn't put words to what a novel experience it was. It's where I firmly demarcate my 'pre-sentient' and 'post-sentient' life. This actually sparked a discussion among my group of friends, some identifying a moment when someone in their life died, other putting it down to a single panic attack. So yeah, something biologically 'coming online' seems legit.

Angostura 7y ago
Fascinating, would you mind me asking at what age you watch Wall-E? My teenage daughter simply won't watch it again - too 'totes emoshe'.

pgt 7y ago

Louis CK has a bit about his earliest memory as he was 'coming online': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q10C5Zp1_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q10C5Zp1_Q

type-2 7y ago

I never experienced this...