3 ms·

Along similar lines, I read a study nearly twenty years ago and I wish I could find it for these very recurring government vs market debates. The study evaluat

by mattrp 7y ago

Along similar lines, I read a study nearly twenty years ago and I wish I could find it for these very recurring government vs market debates. The study evaluated prices between single payer countries and found that it wasn’t the collective bargaining that reduced prices in those countries. They observed that there was no correlation between the size of the single payer and pricing. Rather, it was that the pharma adjusted price to minimize counterfeiting and black markets. In countries where black markets and counterfeiting risks were high, the price was lower. Ironically the decision to lower gave some single payers added incentive to participate in arbitrage. One country would be so low the country itself decided they could arbitrage their Higher priced neighbors by selling off their excess through undisclosed side deals. You see a variant of this example playing out between Canada and US. The article talked about individual black markets and state backed black markets that would emerge as a result of these single payer deals... which were supposed to be confidential but of course the black markets allowed pricing information to leak causing everyone to demand lower prices... everywhere except the US which essentially subsidized all of these below market deals that give the appearance that collective bargaining is superior. Edit: another thought comes to mind - has anyone compared the size of health insurers in the US and compared their purchasing power to government run single payers? I’d hazard a guess that United Health for example probably dwarfs entire single payers of some governments.

snapetom 7y ago
> pharma adjusted price to minimize counterfeiting and black markets I'd totally believe it. It occurs across all markets, with all actors. Market prices isn't simply supply and demand. It's many things like black markets. Another example is public bonds in the US. Why are their yields under what it should be from the interest rates? It's because the earnings are tax free. The market has already adjusted for that.
chimeracoder 7y ago
> Edit: another thought comes to mind - has anyone compared the size of health insurers in the US and compared their purchasing power to government run single payers? I’d hazard a guess that United Health for example probably dwarfs entire single payers of some governments. Medicare alone covers more patients than NHS England does. (Very few countries in Europe actually have single-payer healthcare; the four UK countries are the exception, not the rule).
- marriedWpt 7y ago
  Medicare isn't one gigantic entity though. You get a Medicare provider, with an insurance company that you work with. Yeah there's lots of layers of bureaucracy.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > Medicare isn't one gigantic entity though. Correct > You get a Medicare provider, with an insurance company that you work with. Well, no, the majority of Medicare patients still receive their inpatient and outpatient benefits through Medicare. A (growing) minority receive their Medicare benefits through a private insurer.

by mattrp 7y ago

snapetom 7y ago

> pharma adjusted price to minimize counterfeiting and black markets I'd totally believe it. It occurs across all markets, with all actors. Market prices isn't simply supply and demand. It's many things like black markets. Another example is public bonds in the US. Why are their yields under what it should be from the interest rates? It's because the earnings are tax free. The market has already adjusted for that.

chimeracoder 7y ago

> Edit: another thought comes to mind - has anyone compared the size of health insurers in the US and compared their purchasing power to government run single payers? I’d hazard a guess that United Health for example probably dwarfs entire single payers of some governments. Medicare alone covers more patients than NHS England does. (Very few countries in Europe actually have single-payer healthcare; the four UK countries are the exception, not the rule).

marriedWpt 7y ago
Medicare isn't one gigantic entity though. You get a Medicare provider, with an insurance company that you work with. Yeah there's lots of layers of bureaucracy.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > Medicare isn't one gigantic entity though. Correct > You get a Medicare provider, with an insurance company that you work with. Well, no, the majority of Medicare patients still receive their inpatient and outpatient benefits through Medicare. A (growing) minority receive their Medicare benefits through a private insurer.