6 ms·

It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an ali

It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien.

mattrp 7y ago
They do that pretty much no matter what planet you live on :)
- Murrawhip 7y ago
  Nope, it's only legal in US and New Zealand.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    Consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals is legal only in the US and New Zealand. Direct-to-doctor marketing is legal almost everywhere else, and it's by far what pharmaceutical companies spend more money on.
  - mattrp 7y ago
    Sorry that’s not what I meant... it was a joke of course but I was saying if you suggest any course of treatment to a doctor you’re going to get a hairy eyeball in response. I wasn’t saying anything at all about the places where ads are allowed.
m_ke 7y ago
Yeah it's really weird walking around NYC and seeing most of ads be from hospitals, colleges, pharma and lawyers.
- throwlaplace 7y ago
  don't forget ED drugs! america: take all the dick pills you want through a shady phone app (sponsored by VCs) but don't expect to have have your life threatening illnesses treated affordably! edit: i'm getting downvoted. in case you weren't aware the subways in NY are plastered with HIMS and Roman health ads. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5ndb/erectile-dysfunction-hims-roman-thinx-subway-ads https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5ndb/erectile-dysfuncti...
jotm 7y ago
> If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien. He shouldn't. They're not all knowing super genius specialists who keep up with all the drugs and research.
- ivolimmen 7y ago
  That's why we (the Dutch) have pharmacies that take the prescription of the doctor and then determine, based on your current medicine and medical history, alter your new prescription to fit your need (and he will confer with the GP if needed)
  - throwaway_tech 7y ago
    In the US, we have something similar (but evil) that people don't know or refuse to acknowledge. A Doctor writes a script, and then a pharmacist (not on their own, but at the direction of an insurance company) suggests a change typically to benefit the insurer (for example changing a name brand to a generic or changing 30 days to 90 days so the patient doesn't get seen by the doctor again for 90 days for additional testing/monitoring). In the US the pharmacy/pharmacist can not change the script so they send the recommendation to the doctor for approval (and get paid a bonus from the insurer for sending the request), if the doctor approves the pharmacy gets a 2nd bonus, if the doctor does not make the change, there is a very good chance the insurer will drop the doctor from their network for not doing what the insurer asks to lower their costs through the pharmacy proxy.
    - chimeracoder 7y ago
      > for example changing a name brand to a generic In most states, the law explicitly requires the pharmacist to fill a prescription with a generic (if available) unless the doctor specifically writes "dispense as written". Not allows - requires. The purpose of these laws is to protect patients - in the overwhelming majority of cases, the generic and brand name drugs are equivalent for patients, so patients save money by purchasing the generic medication even if the physician prescribed the drug using its more well-known name (the brand name).
vonmoltke 7y ago
> It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. Those ads are a small portion of pharma marketing budgets for prescription products. The vast majority goes to direct-to-doctor marketing.
- redisman 7y ago
  That's 10 times more unnerving though. Especially given the very recent opioid prescription crisis.
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    Absolutely. I feel it is important to point out, though, given the number of people here who think these budgets are driven by American DTC ads.
- programmertote 7y ago
  You can read my other comment [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127805] about my experience at a pharma-hosted dinner for my wife's former internship mentor (a doctor). Given that experience, I'd not be surprised if pharma spend a ton of money on direct-to-doctor marketing.
mc32 7y ago
I know a couple of doctors overseas and while there isn’t direct to consumer advertising for Rx drugs, the doctors get invited by the pharmas to conferences in the Greek islands or the Adriatic, sometimes they are invited to “talk”. They can bring their spouses too... in addition I think they get kickbacks for Rxs -but I’m not sure. Not sure which one is better or worse.
umvi 7y ago
On the other hand, I hate the general attitude of "don't question your doctor or do your own medical research; the doctor knows what's best" Doctors are mortals too and can only have so much time to draw on info they crammed X years ago. Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it. Anecdotal example - my sister had a wierd skin condition in high school. My mom researched skin images and symptoms for hours and hours and concluded it was shingles. My Mom then brought her in and discussed her findings with the GP who scoffed and said she was far too young for it to be shingles. He then admonished my mom for doing her own research. Long story short and one embarrassed GP later, it was shingles.
- intopieces 7y ago
  > Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it. Waking into a 15 minute appointment with months worth of research seems like a bad way to approach collaboration with healthcare professionals. Or do people still have personal relationships with doctors outside the appointment window? It seems like GPs have become dispensers of medicine rather than care.
  - carbocation 7y ago
    It isn't always possible to answer every question in 15 minutes, but I think it's helpful when people have questions to come prepared with those questions. It's literally our job to provide health advice; the "realities" of dealing with high volume can't/shouldn't change that.
  - umvi 7y ago
    The only people that do months of research are those with a chronic disease (diabetes, cancer, Lyme, etc.) However, many people will at least do several hours of research before going into the doctor
    - amyjess 7y ago
      Regarding chronic disease... So I have a friend with Hashimoto's. Before finally being diagnosed, she had a long history of being misdiagnosed, blown off, and having her symptoms dismissed as nothing. After being diagnosed, she connected with a number of other Hashimoto's patients and sufferers of chronic illness in general and found out that pretty much everyone she's talked to has the same stories. Constant invalidation, ignoring of symptoms, doctors just plain not listening, until they finally find someone who actually knows their stuff.
pkaye 7y ago
I have a lot of serious long term health issues and quickly found out you have to be the champion for your own health and research everything. But that doesn't mean just asking for the latest drug in the market. Its about asking the right questions. Unless you have a common well understood health issues, you will quickly reach a roadblock.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I agree that it's important to be informed, especially if you have a health problem that is remotely non-obvious. Pharma TV and billboard ads are the last place I'd seek such information though.
Baeocystin 7y ago
Is it really such an odd question? Putting advertising outside, it seems to me that it would be a common occurrence that someone dealing with problem X has probably spoken to other people with the same issue, and what the group knows works well would be spread around. In my case, I'm asthmatic, and I know very well what works best for me, simply because I've had decades of experience figuring it out. When I've gone to see a new doctor, I've been specific in my medicine requests, and it has been received well enough.

It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien.

mattrp 7y ago

They do that pretty much no matter what planet you live on :)

Murrawhip 7y ago
Nope, it's only legal in US and New Zealand.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  Consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals is legal only in the US and New Zealand. Direct-to-doctor marketing is legal almost everywhere else, and it's by far what pharmaceutical companies spend more money on.
- mattrp 7y ago
  Sorry that’s not what I meant... it was a joke of course but I was saying if you suggest any course of treatment to a doctor you’re going to get a hairy eyeball in response. I wasn’t saying anything at all about the places where ads are allowed.

m_ke 7y ago

Yeah it's really weird walking around NYC and seeing most of ads be from hospitals, colleges, pharma and lawyers.

throwlaplace 7y ago
don't forget ED drugs! america: take all the dick pills you want through a shady phone app (sponsored by VCs) but don't expect to have have your life threatening illnesses treated affordably! edit: i'm getting downvoted. in case you weren't aware the subways in NY are plastered with HIMS and Roman health ads. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5ndb/erectile-dysfunction-hims-roman-thinx-subway-ads https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne5ndb/erectile-dysfuncti...

jotm 7y ago

> If I asked my GP for a specific medication they'd look at me like an alien. He shouldn't. They're not all knowing super genius specialists who keep up with all the drugs and research.

ivolimmen 7y ago
That's why we (the Dutch) have pharmacies that take the prescription of the doctor and then determine, based on your current medicine and medical history, alter your new prescription to fit your need (and he will confer with the GP if needed)
- throwaway_tech 7y ago
  In the US, we have something similar (but evil) that people don't know or refuse to acknowledge. A Doctor writes a script, and then a pharmacist (not on their own, but at the direction of an insurance company) suggests a change typically to benefit the insurer (for example changing a name brand to a generic or changing 30 days to 90 days so the patient doesn't get seen by the doctor again for 90 days for additional testing/monitoring). In the US the pharmacy/pharmacist can not change the script so they send the recommendation to the doctor for approval (and get paid a bonus from the insurer for sending the request), if the doctor approves the pharmacy gets a 2nd bonus, if the doctor does not make the change, there is a very good chance the insurer will drop the doctor from their network for not doing what the insurer asks to lower their costs through the pharmacy proxy.
  - chimeracoder 7y ago
    > for example changing a name brand to a generic In most states, the law explicitly requires the pharmacist to fill a prescription with a generic (if available) unless the doctor specifically writes "dispense as written". Not allows - requires. The purpose of these laws is to protect patients - in the overwhelming majority of cases, the generic and brand name drugs are equivalent for patients, so patients save money by purchasing the generic medication even if the physician prescribed the drug using its more well-known name (the brand name).

vonmoltke 7y ago

> It is where I live, so weird visiting the US and seeing "ask your doctor for" adverts. Those ads are a small portion of pharma marketing budgets for prescription products. The vast majority goes to direct-to-doctor marketing.

redisman 7y ago
That's 10 times more unnerving though. Especially given the very recent opioid prescription crisis.
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  Absolutely. I feel it is important to point out, though, given the number of people here who think these budgets are driven by American DTC ads.
programmertote 7y ago
You can read my other comment [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127805 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22127805] about my experience at a pharma-hosted dinner for my wife's former internship mentor (a doctor). Given that experience, I'd not be surprised if pharma spend a ton of money on direct-to-doctor marketing.

mc32 7y ago

I know a couple of doctors overseas and while there isn’t direct to consumer advertising for Rx drugs, the doctors get invited by the pharmas to conferences in the Greek islands or the Adriatic, sometimes they are invited to “talk”. They can bring their spouses too... in addition I think they get kickbacks for Rxs -but I’m not sure. Not sure which one is better or worse.

umvi 7y ago

On the other hand, I hate the general attitude of "don't question your doctor or do your own medical research; the doctor knows what's best" Doctors are mortals too and can only have so much time to draw on info they crammed X years ago. Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it. Anecdotal example - my sister had a wierd skin condition in high school. My mom researched skin images and symptoms for hours and hours and concluded it was shingles. My Mom then brought her in and discussed her findings with the GP who scoffed and said she was far too young for it to be shingles. He then admonished my mom for doing her own research. Long story short and one embarrassed GP later, it was shingles.

intopieces 7y ago
> Patients can quickly become more expert than GPs with regards to their own diseases, especially if they have months to research it. Waking into a 15 minute appointment with months worth of research seems like a bad way to approach collaboration with healthcare professionals. Or do people still have personal relationships with doctors outside the appointment window? It seems like GPs have become dispensers of medicine rather than care.
- carbocation 7y ago
  It isn't always possible to answer every question in 15 minutes, but I think it's helpful when people have questions to come prepared with those questions. It's literally our job to provide health advice; the "realities" of dealing with high volume can't/shouldn't change that.
- umvi 7y ago
  The only people that do months of research are those with a chronic disease (diabetes, cancer, Lyme, etc.) However, many people will at least do several hours of research before going into the doctor
  - amyjess 7y ago
    Regarding chronic disease... So I have a friend with Hashimoto's. Before finally being diagnosed, she had a long history of being misdiagnosed, blown off, and having her symptoms dismissed as nothing. After being diagnosed, she connected with a number of other Hashimoto's patients and sufferers of chronic illness in general and found out that pretty much everyone she's talked to has the same stories. Constant invalidation, ignoring of symptoms, doctors just plain not listening, until they finally find someone who actually knows their stuff.

pkaye 7y ago

I have a lot of serious long term health issues and quickly found out you have to be the champion for your own health and research everything. But that doesn't mean just asking for the latest drug in the market. Its about asking the right questions. Unless you have a common well understood health issues, you will quickly reach a roadblock.

GordonS 7y ago
I agree that it's important to be informed, especially if you have a health problem that is remotely non-obvious. Pharma TV and billboard ads are the last place I'd seek such information though.

Baeocystin 7y ago

Is it really such an odd question? Putting advertising outside, it seems to me that it would be a common occurrence that someone dealing with problem X has probably spoken to other people with the same issue, and what the group knows works well would be spread around. In my case, I'm asthmatic, and I know very well what works best for me, simply because I've had decades of experience figuring it out. When I've gone to see a new doctor, I've been specific in my medicine requests, and it has been received well enough.