18 ms·

The Failure of the iPad

173 points by tobr 7y ago

PaulHoule 7y ago
You'd have to say the same about Android tablets and Windows tablets too. These tick more of the boxes but they have not really connected w/ the market.
- hocuspocus 7y ago
  I see a lot of Windows tablets and hybrid laptops at my work. Many PMs seem to enjoy them. As for Android tablets, Google never really took them seriously and it shows.
  - duxup 7y ago
    Yeah Google gave it some lip service for a little bit and then just walked away from any serious help for Android tablets. Granted ChromeOS and Chromebooks have done a good job of covering some of the tablet use case space, obviously not entirely, but it seems like a better place to focus.
cmcd 7y ago
These failures apply to every tablet that is not running a full desktop OS. Of these the iPad is far and away the best option currently.
- rchaud 7y ago
  How so? Android has a file system that's accessible to the user out of the box, and there are numerous file manager apps on the Play Store in addition to whatever the OEM packaged in the Android OS image. While the Play Store may be a walled garden, Android doesn't stop you from installing APKs from third parties. In addition to that, Android has had mouse support since at least 2012. It took Apple what, 8 generations to add it into iPad OS? However, your overall point is correct. the Ipad is more successful as a "productivity" tool than Android among regular people, despite the suite of Microsoft Office apps being fairly similar in quality across both. I'm assuming that Office style apps are what's mostly being used, and not specialist apps like Procreate or Affinity which are iOS only. My guess is that people are more willing to buy Apple for tablet productivity as their support is more reliably available and it's easy to get third party accessories. On the Android side there is no such guarantee. Samsung is only OEM even attempting to compete with the iPad Pro, but its support doesn't have the same reputation and accessories aren't always available in all markets.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    Android has a file system, but almost every app goes out of its way to hide that fact from you. I have almost no idea where any particular app is going to save files to, and so it's playing needle in a haystack every time I want to open a file created by one app in a different one.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      This is another case where Apple didn't invent something, but made the best version of it. For a device that didn't have a public file system until recently, the iPad's both works and makes sense. It's iPod, mobile phone, Bluetooth headphones all over again, on a feature level.
  - miskin 7y ago
    This is why I wonder about the reasoning in the article. You have platforms that are NOT walled gardens, where you CAN write your own great file manager and those also have same ballpark hardware, yet nobody rushed to write this groundbreaking filemanager that would trigger platform success remotely comparable to iPadOS. Maybe, this is not about walled gardens and filemanagers? Maybe there are best tools for certain tasks and for author's job tablet is just not the right one? Since I got my first ipad 10 years ago I almost exclusively read things on it instead of my notebook. And I read a lot and it is part of my work. But I never expected it to replace my notebook or phone.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  > Of these the iPad is far and away the best option currently. Except when it isn't. When you actually need to transfer a file from/to an Ipad to another device, and that you cannot access the file system and you don't have any other Apple device to do so, this is the hardest device to work with. I remember being honestly puzzled as to how to do it, and looking online for numerous "solutions", all of which involved installing more applications to hopefully do the trick. Pure horror. (It was, as far as I know, impossible to transfer files even thru a direct USB connection without any specific application - meaning USB was completely useless by default).
  - brandonhorst 7y ago
    None of this is true in modern iOS.
- ansible 7y ago
  You can get a tablet running ChromeOS, and then install the Linux subsystem on it. You then have a full CLI environment to code in.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> When the original Mac came out, it didn’t have multitasking, either. What is the author referring to, exactly? I've seen screenshots of the original Mac with multiple windows open on screen.
- amiga-workbench 7y ago
  Windows, perhaps. Programs? No. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder
- simongray 7y ago
  Only the included desk accessories worked like that, not normal applications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_1#Desk_accessories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_1#Desk_accessories
- braythwayt 7y ago
  One of the first architectural decisions that Bud and I made for the Macintosh system software in the spring of 1981 was that we were only going to try to run one application at a time. We barely had enough RAM or screen space to do even that, and we thought that we'd benefit from the resultant simplifications. Besides, multi-tasking was supposed to be Lisa's forte, and we didn't want to usurp all of the reasons for buying a Lisa. --Andy Hertzfeld In the original MacOS, only one program* ran at a time. You could have multiple MacPaint windows, for example, but if you wanted to use MacDraw, you'd have to quit MacPaint. From a process point of view, this was single-tasking. Andy Hertzfeld wrote the first multi-process environment for Macintosh, "Switcher." With Switcher, you could have MacPaint and MacDraw (or any combination of as many as four apps) open simultaneously. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Switcher.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor... Only one would control the entire screen, so if you were using MacPaint, the MacDraw (for example) windows were hidden. When you "switched" to another app, it was like side-scrolling the entire screen, the entire desktop scrolled horizontally to the left or the right and another scrolled into view. Later on, MacintoshOS (pre OS X) acquired its own cooperative multi-tasking capabilities, and when that happened, you could have multiple windows from multiple apps visible on the screen at the same time and switch by clicking on another window. It was quite the hack for its day, and had a cool UX, it was like having four Macintoshes arranged in a carouself, you could "switch" between processes. --- As another comment points out, there was another thing called a "Desk Accessory" that could co-exist on the screen with a full application. But these were not full applications and had very limited capabilities. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Desk_Ornaments.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...
notacoward 7y ago
I don't think it's true that users generally want things to be file-centric instead of app-centric. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The underlying lack of data integration between apps - even simple copy and paste can't be relied on - is a bigger stumbling block. It's also odd that the screen-layout and I/O limitations don't feature more prominently. The author's larger point - that you don't have to spend so much effort telling people something is useful if it really is - rings true, but I'm not sure they make a very good case for it.
m23khan 7y ago
I personally find iPad (or any other tablet for that matter) a big hit when it comes to device usage for small kids as well as using as a interactive screen for customers in retail shops. But yeah, other than that, it would be hard to be productive with just a tablet I reckon.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  I use an iPad Pro as my primary personal device. I have used it to write a book, and to write code for GitHub. I would use it in my current job, however we have very strict rules about what we are and are not allowed to do with personal devices regardless of their make and model. It's quite amazing how capable it is once you rustle up a git client, and editor, and a wireless keyboard.
  - LegitShady 7y ago
    Your usage case seems like almost any tablet device could have worked though.
    - freehunter 7y ago
      Yes but the biggest success of the iPad lies mostly in there are no alternatives left. Almost everyone else has left the market. At this point if you’re buying a tablet that’s not an iPad, you really have to go out of your way to make that justification.
- bob1029 7y ago
  >using as a interactive screen for customers in retail shops. This is precisely what we are using iPads for right now. Our clients and end customers are very comfortable using Apple hardware. The screen size on these devices is perfect for most interactions. If you have the device in landscape, it's about as wide as a 8.5x11" document at 1:1 scale. Also, it is intuitive for most of our users to capture photos of documents or read barcodes using iPads. If I had to build this using USB webcams or even laptops with embedded webcams it would be far trickier from a UX perspective. Also, some of our clients have iPads with LTE connectivity so they can seamlessly go into the field and work with end customers who don't have time to come to them. That said, the app development ecosystem around Apple is a fucking nightmare. Signing your apps, dealing with regressions after iOS major version updates, trying to do anything at all inside XCode, attempting to automate your builds, etc. This is why we are looking at supporting a wider range of devices heading into 2021 - Surface/Win10, Android, and PWA. IMO the holy grail is PWA, Apple just needs to give it better support (I am quite aware of why they do not want to). If we could somehow get everything working via PWA, we would immediately dumpster the iOS codebase and do the whole thing exclusively using Blazor server-side.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> real work is typically file-centric What is this silly ‘real work’ gate-keeping? I guess the author means their work. My fitness instructor uses an iPad to refer to fitness plans. He’s doing real work. He uses files to do it as well! Opening an Excel spreadsheet. My friend is an outdoor teacher and uses an iPad as a map. He’s doing real work. Maps are files. Another friend works as a train engineer and uses an iPad to refer to technical manuals. He’s doing real work. The manuals are PDF files. My colleagues who do recruitment at conferences take people’s details on iPads. They’re doing real work too. Each form filled in is a file.
- thisisnico 7y ago
  I use an iPad at my site for crane and forklift checklists with operators.
  - totallynotabot 7y ago
    Out of curiosity, what app do you use?
    - thisisnico 7y ago
      Honestly, the apps for this cost like 3-10K a year, and we're a small facility and a small factory, with a single iPad. So we have this web-based software named SimplyISO, We created the templates and forms/checklists in there, managers get reports etc, we threw the iPad into Kiosk mode to lock it down.
- aphextim 7y ago
  Our company pilot uses his iPad and foreflight all the time. I am pretty sure flying a plane is real work too.
- braythwayt 7y ago
  I built features for GitHub on an iPad 2. TIL that things like rich prose diffs aren't real work.
jxdxbx 7y ago
I've read so many of these articles lately. People seem to approach the iPad expecting it to work like a laptop, and when it doesn't, they're off to compose a thinkpiece. Many of these articles also state as a fact things that haven't been true of iPads for a while. If you want a file-centric experience you can have it--at least if you select apps that have been updated in the past several years. All of my files are stored in iCloud Drive, which is synced to my Macs just like Dropbox, and which works flawlessly with iPhone and iPad apps that properly implement the Files app APIs. I don't have any data silos. Yet I view the option of using an iPad purely as an app jukebox with data silos as a major win for many, many users. I stopped using laptops years ago. No, I can't do everything on an iPad Pro. But I find iPadOS to be a superior operating system for a small, portable screen. (I'm defining small as below 20"). I use a 27" iMac for more advanced tasks (as well as a media server, etc).
- freehunter 7y ago
  Many people approach the iPad in the same way people approached the cloud a few years ago. They try to treat it like the older technology it’s meant to replace, and when it doesn’t work the same they will proclaim “it’s not the cloud it’s just someone else’s data center!” It took a cloud native approach to really get the real benefit from the cloud. It takes an iPad native approach to benefit from the iPad.
wayneftw 7y ago
> Nobody wrote any articles about how, actually, real work on a Mac is possible. Yes they did. Back then Apple also did something called "advertising" to try and convince enterprise users that Macs could be used in a business environment. In more recent times they resorted to a very petty form of advertisement that, by way of direct, cherry picked comparison points, they tried to convince everybody that Macs were just as good as Windows PCs. At that time there were tons of articles commissioned to push the same point and even whole websites. It was never really true though and it still isn't. Macs were only any good for certain workloads, just like the iPad, and only if you could look past their wonky UI and hardware design choices.
- cosmiccatnap 7y ago
  This is what I've found to be the most true. For years people talked about the Mac devices being so much better for development and creativity but after dealing with one for a year all I can say is that it's got a Unix terminal which is better than windows but falls short compared to a Linux system. Android is the same, having tried the iPad and the iPhone because it was faster and had a better interface I soon realized it was just a toy painted to be a device for adults and no real speed improvement was noticed for anything but mobile games which I don't play anyway, I switched back to a note and threw Manjaro on a laptop and I've been more productive with that combo than any I've tried... I can't even imagine what you would or could use an iPad for that a thin laptop like the xps wouldn't run circles around even in terms of portability. It just seems to me like these people bought a very expensive 2 year old computer and need to justify it to themselves and others.
lordleft 7y ago
Honestly, Apple is asking for this kind of scrutiny when they apply the 'pro' moniker to any and every product. My iPad Pro is incredible and I love using it, but there is still so much friction involved in doing certain things that are way simpler on my desktop machines.
- zerkten 7y ago
  I tend to agree. I've got an iPad Pro, but my MacBook Pro is still my default for activities which are often possible, but awkward on the iPad. What Apple seems to have done though is avoid an uncontained failure. I could have seen other tech leadership teams going all in on the iPad Pro, and removing/deprecating other lines completely at this point. They've started incremental investment in the iPad after years of low/no investment. This seems like a better strategy to realise the full capabilities of the product while retaining what works. This is too slow for some people, but I don't know of another option, especially when an ARM transition on laptops is a consideration.
gargs 7y ago
I feel that a lot of the shortcomings of the iPad as a platform are really a consequence of the chicken or egg problem. For the platform to be viable, you need a lot of good apps, and to make good apps a possibility, the platform needs to be monetizable. Currently, the iPad lacks on all 2 fronts. Apple isn't leading either on the software front. All the stock apps are just resized apps of their iOS counterparts with nothing extraordinary about them. Most happy users are just using a bigger web-browser, or a bigger drawing app (with the same functionality as on smaller screens), or custom apps that are uploaded on an educational/enterprise portal and are a job requirement. A lot of families use it as an entertainment/learning device for their children where its processing power is underused. There is almost no money to be made as a developer if you spend all that effort supporting multitasking or adding nice iPadOS-only features. Customers won't pay and Apple only makes your life harder with every OS release.
bhauer 7y ago
Since 2015 or thereabouts, my opinion has been that tablets plateaued and have faltered because of what I call "Yet Another Application Platform Dilemma." [1] Many people who already have a PC and phone don't really want, let alone need, another in-between device that they have to babysit and manage. That said, I agree with the OP's argument, which is effectively that if you have to go out of your way to say, "No really, you can do real work on an iPad," you have missed the point. Of course you can do real work on a lot of devices. Is the device particularly good at it, though? Maybe, in some cases. But for a large number of us—and apparently that number is large enough to slow tablet sales—doing work on a tablet is just not good enough. We're either in "Work mode" where a laptop is better or in "Consumption mode" where the laptop or phone is just fine. It's funny that in this thread people are saying the same thing that the OP pointed out. In effect: "You can do real work on an iPad." Great. But the topic at hand, whether you care about it or not, is conjecture about why the devices are not selling better. [1] https://tiamat.tsotech.com/why-tablet-sales-are-falling https://tiamat.tsotech.com/why-tablet-sales-are-falling
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- rossdavidh 7y ago
  For about 20 years, I have been observing the paper-book-to-tablet ratio when I'm on the bus. Of course, back when I started it was because I was wondering if tablets would do away with paper books. Now it's just out of habit, because in fact the smartphone turned out to be an unintentional ally of paper books. I see people with both paper books and smartphones, but people don't normally want to carry two screen devices with them, and they sure aren't giving up their phones. So the tablet/e-reader/whatever-you-call-it peaked 5-10 years ago. Of course, this discussion is about work, not how one reads books, but I think something similar is happening. Tablets are too close to other devices (laptops, smartphones) which are not going away, and therefore they are appear to have hit a hard upper limit. My 14-year old daughter used to use tablets; now she uses her chromebook, her smartphone, and her desktop, but never an iPad. Most impressively, she even uses a Wacom tablet, which she plugs into her desktop, because she liked it better than the iPad for drawing. I think she is not alone, and people her age will go into the workforce more accustomed to using phones and laptops to get things done.
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abrax3141 7y ago
The iPad is awesome for kids < 13 (please keep your chocolate-covered hands off my laptop keyboard!!), and when I just want to consume media.
- ako 7y ago
  My son has an Xbox one, desktop with decent cpu/Gpu, and an iPhone 7. Still he recently bought an iPad from his own savings because he likes it best for gaming...
dreamcompiler 7y ago
I wish we lived in a world where we had hardware as nice as the iPad that anyone could write software for--at any level--with no control or veto power by any single big company (or country).
- eloisant 7y ago
  Well, technically anyone can create an Android app and distribute it directly without going through the Play Store. "As nice as the iPad" is subjective but there are pretty nice Android tablets out there.
  - notatoad 7y ago
    i've tried out a fair number of the android tablets and imho they're all a long ways off from being as nice as the iPad. The only tablet hardware that really comes close to the iPad for me is the Surface. I really want android (or chromeOS) tablets to be as good, because i'd much rather use android apps than windows or iPad apps, but the hardware just sucks.
raiyu 7y ago
Most obvious and best use case has been the proliferation of point of sale systems especially to small businesses which couldn’t make a large investment in that area before.
daturkel 7y ago
This article is oddly similar to the Daring Fireball article that just came out and was just posted on HN. Both talk about how, 10 years in, the iPad has failed to revolutionize computing and both complain about awkward UX. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22166421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22166421 https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/the_ipad_awkwardly_turns_10 https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/the_ipad_awkwardly_turns_...
- hinkley 7y ago
  Someone replied on that thread that the iPad doesn’t quite have the same upgrade treadmill as other devices. I made do with my iPad mini 2 when it started having a video glitch during the long gap between the 4 and the 5. Then I finally bought the new one. That was almost five years for me. Another one said they were common with children, which is true. But if they grow out of them, then they also might not be replaced that often. Birth rate in the first world is steady or falling. High end device sales for children should tend to follow.
gwbas1c 7y ago
I just want a Macbook where I can fold over the screen and it's an iPad. Then I want to be able to use iPad applications in Macos. Is that too much to ask for?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  If you're willing to pay a $400 premium for such a device, you could just Velcro an iPad to a MacBook.
ngcc_hk 7y ago
It is not a failure if it is part of an ecosystem. Just got 3 as book and note writer. Perfect.
paulhodge 7y ago
> The thing that truly hurts the iPad is the App Store. I'm skeptical if the situation would be better without an app store. The app store provides monetization and that leads to higher quality apps. I think what we'd really want is for iPadOS to open up to more integrations, like an integration app that offers a different home screen / app switcher / task manager experience.
SllX 7y ago
Choosing a tablet over a laptop or any other kind of computer is all about the tradeoffs you are willing to make. There are some circumstances where the combination of portability and screen real estate makes it a better choice than a laptop or a phone. There are some applications that are more well suited to tablets, and some that are more well suited to a laptop, desktop, server or phone instead. They’re all computers, there’s not many reasons you couldn’t run a web server off a tablet or phone, it’s more a case of choosing the right tool for the right job at the right time. From that perspective, iPads and tablets in general are just a different tool, you can beat a nail in with an iPad in a pinch, maybe, but why not just grab an actual hammer? But that’s boring. It doesn’t play into the narrative that tablets, with iPads at the vanguard, were or are predestined to replace laptops entirely in exactly the same way that GUIs replaced what we used to call command-line interfaces and surely not a single soul on Earth uses those anymore. Obviously the only thing holding this back is Apple’s own policies, and if they would just let the next Adobe rise up and take their rightful place as a software giant making tools for iPads, surely its destiny as a laptop-murderer would be fulfilled. That would be so much better than merely being absolutely top tier for digital painting, digital clipboards, digital books, bedtime movies, and at least being serviceable as a third-rate cash register. tl;dr: laptop-murder is more exciting than another tool to choose to have in your tool belt or not.
Someone 7y ago
If only my failures were like the iPad... The laptop is about four times as old as the iPad, and it hasn’t fully replaced the desktop either.
Y-Bopinator 7y ago
I use a Files app on iOS so I can work with files. I edit PDFs and word documents with Pages. I have my email, everything I would need on a PC plus SMS and phone. This author has it all wrong. The reason Apple sucks is because of what they’re doing in China and their devices are overpriced.
ryuukk_ 7y ago
lol, microsoft propaganda they can't replicate Apple's success storieS with a big S so the only thing they can do is spread fake news their dual screen bullshit is a joke, just like their pseudo HTML alternative that everyone is hating called XAML
kebman 7y ago
iPad is favoured by many artists for making illustrations and art. Outside this niche, I tend to agree with the article.
GeekyBear 7y ago
Stephen Sinofsky, who led the Windows team at the time the iPhone and iPad were introduced, had a very different take on the iPad that he recently shared. >In first year 2010–2011 Apple sold 20 million iPads. That same year would turn out to be an historical high water mark for PCs (365M, ~180M laptops). Analysts had forecasted more than 500M PCs were now rapidly increasing tablet forecasts to 100’s of million and dropping PC. The iPad and iPhone were soundly existential threats to Microsoft’s core platform business. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/305359-happy-10th-ipad-steven-sinofsky-reflects-on-microsofts-perspective https://www.extremetech.com/computing/305359-happy-10th-ipad...
reaperducer 7y ago
The Failure of the iPad 200 million units sold. $10 billion in quarterly revenue. Man, I wish I could have that kind of "failure."
- compiler-guy 7y ago
  If an unknown startup's only product was the iPad, it would be a unicorn of mega proportions and the toast of hacker news.
tjpaudio 7y ago
While I agree with the author's sentiment that it hasn't really panned out for professional work, the title is not right. When the iPad came out, I dumped my Apple stock before the quarter where they would report on sales. The stock at the time was heavily forward valued on lots of iPad sales happening. Apple had failed to gain traction with all it's previous ultra-mobile computing products in the past, all of them marketed for productivity. Why would this one be different? Tablets were available in the stores, but they weren't selling. I figured it would be another case of the early adopters getting overly jazzed about a product nobody wanted. I was wrong. The iPad saw adoption by the everyday consumer. Give it to the kids so they could play games, watch videos and stop bothering mom. Mom liked how simple it was to check her email. Etc. They created an entire new market. THAT, is not a failure.
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jaredcwhite 7y ago
"Why do people keep posting articles about people doing real work on an iPad?" Because people like the author of this blog post keep saying that people can't use the iPad to get real work done. At this point, it's become maddening. Do I still carry a Mac laptop around with me? Yes. Are there some things I can do on a Mac I can't do on an iPad? Yes. But it goes both ways. Are there some things I can do on an iPad I can't do on a Mac? Unequivocally yes. Does that mean, in those contexts, I should throw shade at the Mac and say people can't get "real work" done on the Mac? No, that's absurd. A smartphone != tablet != laptop != desktop != watch != smart speaker, etc., etc. Different devices for difference purposes, and the fact they all overlap in many ways is a nice bonus, not a problem to bemoan.
- p1necone 7y ago
  The laptop/desktop form factor is a physical barrier to the kinds of things that tablets are good for (portability, drawing, good for reading documents while working etc etc). But there's not reason why you shouldn't be able to use the iPad for the stuff you currently need a laptop/desktop running mac os for other than software. I should be able to chuck a keyboard cover on an iPad and use it for all the same stuff I use a desktop pc for (albeit with a smaller screen), but I can't - because Apple intentionally puts a less feature rich operating system on the device (and has a restricted app store that explicitly disallows certain use cases).
  - Terretta 7y ago
    > but I can’t But many can, and barring certain industry specific specialty tools, I’m unfamiliar with everyday laptop software for everyday people that doesn’t have a plausible counterpart.
m0zg 7y ago
iPad would succeed a lot more if there was no iPhone to compete with it. As things are right now, iPad is an afterthought for iOS developers mostly, and an expensive afterthought at that, because larger screen requires different UI. This creates a vicious cycle because there isn't really that much you can do with it, so there's no good reason to buy it unless a wad of cash is burning a hole in your pocket (which is common for Apple clientele).
ohazi 7y ago
Everyone in this thread getting offended by casual use of the term "real work" is missing the point. The iPad can obviously be used for "real work" -- but the point of this argument is not to criticize people and the work that they do, it's to criticize the limitations of the iPad's operating system. Computer power users like composability, interoperability, "unix philosophy" / "do one thing well" -- whatever you want to call it -- because it's a powerful tool. RodgerTheGreat summed it up really well: > On a desktop, any user can invent new workflows. On an ipad, a user can only buy them wholesale. Users are at the mercy of the degree of forethought the app developers put into their designs. Power users are frustrated because we like the iPad hardware and want to be able to use it, but Apple seems to have latched onto the idea that good tablet design requires them to sacrifice this idea. I and many others don't believe this is necessarily a requirement. Yes, the form factor is different, and you need to be careful with input methods, but good composability should still be possible, and could even be better than on a PC -- but Apple doesn't seem interested in actually trying. That's the criticism.
- mstolpm 7y ago
  The criticism is that the iPad isn't better than a PC? Neither is a hammer or a saw ... but both are used professionally every minute. The iPad is a tool. Would someone argue that a hammer is flawed because it only can be used in some ways, some professions and for some tasks? A laptop is a tool, a PC is a tool, a mainframe is a tool, a calculator is a tool and a saw is a tool. So what? Of course, a PC might be a better tool for your workflow, your work, your results. But that might be different for someone else. Work with the tools that fits your needs best! Why do we need to criticize one tool because it is not equal or better to another? Gruber is right in regards of discoverability and consistency of (multitasking) gestures on iPadOS. There is room for improvement. The lack of "professional" iPad software should be directed more towards the developers than Apple - why needs some iPad app to be crippled in comparison to its Mac counterpart? Valid concerns. But calling the iPad a failure because it doesn't fit to your work, your workflow and your processes? Because it isn't the ultimate general purpose tool? I know authors still using a typewriter. I know some that use iPads because of the "single app interface" and less distraction. I know others using laptops (and complaining about distraction). All are doing "real" work (as many other professions mentioned in this thread) and all have their preferred way of working. If a developer/power user is happy with his Mac/Win/Linux setup, why does s/he need to criticize the iPad for NOT being the right tool? Or are these folks just unhappy with their setups and desperately hoping Apple will give them a better (-toy-) tool for less bucks? Or is it just en vogue to bash Apple?
p1necone 7y ago
A lot of people in here arguing that the iPad isn't for lesser work than a desktop or laptop, just different work. I think this is largely true, however the frustration (at least for me) comes from the fact that this shouldn't need to be the case. With a few tweaks to the OS, and a keyboard cover the iPad could be used for all the things that iPads are currently used for and all the things that people still need desktops/laptops for. I think the frustration is coming from people who see that they're being unnecessarily constrained. Even being able to dual boot iOS or macOS would solve the problem.
murphy214 7y ago
I get the real work argument but I think real work from real professionals is slowly permeate to the iPad for example Madlib (prolific hip-hop producer) produced his entire last album on an iPad and it was seen as a pretty big deal in the professional music world. (I think)
rs23296008n1 7y ago
I use my ipad pro 12.9" for real-as-in-paying-work. Good luck trying to take my ipads away. I've two of them. Theres a few more around that aren't mine. Checking email, general websites, discord use, videoconf, etc etc all on ipad. Drawing, sketching, music generation. Excellent. What is not so good: No support for tough work background threads. Don't suggest Spotify as counter-example. Audio streaming is a non-challenge for modern cpus. No support for on-device app development. Both of my ipads leave my raspberry pi computers in the dust in terms of ram, processing power and graphics. Yet, each pi is more functional as a general machine because I can easily remote into them. I can easily build code on a pi and run it. Using ipad I need something like Pythonista to get anywhere near the same. Workflow is useful. I don't think my ipad pro deserves the "pro" moniker however. It is moving towards but it is no where ready. Don't believe me? Look at the apps for email as just one example. Try setting up filters/labels in a ios app like gmail. For that matter, show me all the headers for a particular email. Can't. Basic things I'd like to do. Especially with spam handling. A pro device doesn't have stripped down interfaces. It can have hidden functionality revealed through a setting. Even a few 70 year olds have complained to me about limitations with the various email and calendar apps. They use desktops for "complex" tasks. Why can't other browsers use non-safari engine? Why no extensions support for browsers? Its the dumb-it-down-for-ipad mindset that is holding the ipad from being a true pro device. SSH on ipad is what keeps my ipad useful for development. Thats real enough for me. Why can't I run a compiler natively on the ipad? Its got the processing power. Wheels for the mind. Make it happen Apple.
- washadjeffmad 7y ago
  Apple absolutely nails the generalist and prosumer space but leaves me baffled by their posturing towards industry adoption. As a JAMF swilling AASP, I've lost my patience at the slaverers (it's always the webdevs) and share my opinion freely that the "Pro" in MacWhatever Pro means "an accessory for someone who considers themself a professional", not "professional-grade equipment". I consider it part of a healthy aspirational realignment. Some move on, others try to prove me wrong. Both end up closer to their enlightenment. Although, all it would take to flip me on iPads is something like Chromebook's Crouton, and I'd lifecycle every MacBook Air with an iPad Pro 2nd Gen and offer them in place of MacBook Pros. They're almost amazing, and it just hurts that there's either no support or no feature parity with the major creative and engineering software we license. iPads are top notch for media and productivity, but the platform's niche utility is way outclassed by its own hardware and other products more common in industry.
robomartin 7y ago
What frustrates me about the i<thing> and smart-phone ecosystem in general is the abject lack of integration with computers and, in the case of i<things>, the lack of sensible file system access, memory card slot, f-ing cursor control, and more. Simple example: Why can't I pop-up my iPhone X screen as a window on one of my three workstation monitors (Windows 10) and run it from my computer? Why can't I make calls with it from my computer? Why can't I click on a phone number on a web page in Chrome and dial it with my phone? Why can't I type a text message from my PC keyboard and send it with the phone? Why can't I copy and paste onto the phone? Why can't I copy and paste an image and send it with the phone? Why can't I do the reverse and grab things from the phone from my PC? Why can't I access a file system transparently (other than images)? For that matter, why can't I transfer large videos? Why can't I use my PC headset through the PC to communicate using the phone? I mean, the thing sits there ALL DAY, 10 to 12 hours a day, right next to my workstation. If I want to do anything with it I have to go from a full size keyboard with arrow keys and all kinds of nice things as well as a beautifully efficient trackball to typing with one finger on a small screen and using the f-ing ridiculous select-copy-paste mechanism, etc. If I want to send someone a link from my PC I have to email it or SMS it to myself, grab the phone, disconnect it from the charge cord (because it is inconvenient to do anything with it plugged in), go to SMS, email or FB messenger, copy the link, go back to wherever I need to go to send it, paste it and click send. It's 2020. The phone should meld into the computer with full transparent operability. Same for tablets. BTW, this is what I was hoping Microsoft would finally bring to life with Windows Phone. I was eagerly awaiting this one killer integration. I firmly believe that would have inspired, I don't know, a billion people world-wide to adopt Windows Phone. Instead they wasted time trying to make it an iPhone killer. It didn't need to be that. All it had to do is become symbiotic with a PC in all possible ways and it would have been an absolute hit. Here's hoping they try again. If anyone from MS is watching, call me, I know exactly what you have to build (and you guys have no clue).
- pvg 7y ago
  An awful lot of this integration exists, between iOS devices and Macs. Windows 10 seems to be getting some better integration with Android in recent beta releases, take a look at the release notes of a recent 'Fast Ring' update.
King-Aaron 7y ago
The iPad made something like $19 billion in revenue for Apple last year. Such a failure
dharma1 7y ago
I love the form factor of iPad, and with a physical keyboard it's starting to be quite good. But... I can't design UIs on it (no Figma or Sketch - yes there are some vector drawing apps but they don't compare) I can't edit high quality video on it (locked down codecs - only h264/h265, no prores, no raw codecs, no ability to install codecs beyond what the OS provides) I can't use an iPad to write software for iPad (no xcode) File management with iOS13 is better but still clunky compared to desktop OS's. Yes there are many things you can do with it that qualify as work for many people, but compared to desktop it's still very much lacking in many areas, and not really progressing significantly either. I wish iOS was more extensible by users and it could have a better chance
sigzero 7y ago
I feel the author doesn't like the iPad even if his conclusions are absurd.
deleted 7y ago
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mantap 7y ago
The iPad by virtue of its form factor, sucks for typing anything longer than a short message. You can't hold it comfortably like a smartphone, or place it on an unsturdy surface like a laptop. Everything about the typing experience on an iPad feels distinctly second class. This is a problem for a computing device because writing is a pillar of human culture and economy. A device that places writing second is a device that has excluded itself from vast swathes of what people use computers for. iPads are good at many thing that involves passive consumption, or drawing using the Pencil, or pressing buttons, etc. I have an iPad and it complements my laptop well - I use it for reading music. The iPad is not a failure. But it's also not replacing my laptop. It is an accessory to it. I'm sure that Apple, a company that sold me both devices, is ecstatic about that.
- Terretta 7y ago
  On the contrary, the iPad Pro with Apple Smart Keyboard is spectacular for typing all the things — anywhere you happen to be. Takes up half the depth of a laptop, or braces firmly on your lap. In fact, given the way it’s balanced, only takes about 2” of table ledge, the keyboard can hang in the air and still firm enough to type on. It places writing first, whether with pencil or keyboard, no laptop does both as well.
- knolax 7y ago
  Ironic that a machine proportioned and named after a writing medium can't handle writing well.
thordenmark 7y ago
I do plenty of "real work" on the iPad. It has replaced my laptop for most of the writing and designing I do away from my desktop.
Jemm 7y ago
Mac and iPad will become much closer when Apple starts gatekeeping Mac apps, which has already begun.
theshadowknows 7y ago
I admit I’m in the minority but for my purposes my iPad fits every need that I have for a computer which is I can do all of my work when I’m away from my desk on it. I do a lot of work in Salesforce, I write a lot of sql, I write a lot of JavaScript, I write a lot of Python, and I write a fair amount of Go. I write and respond to a lot of emails. I talk to people on Teams. I do a lot of work in Adobe Analytics, Hue, Jira, SFMC. The main thing that I’ve had a tough time replacing (and I’d be so thrilled if someone here has a good suggestion) is Postman. Because I write tons of little example payloads for APIs to send off to developers to get them started on projects or to test internal stuff. I’d love a native solution for that.
p1necone 7y ago
The comments on this thread are immensely frustrating. Just because all the work you need to do can be done on an iPad doesn't mean that all the work everyone needs to do can be done on an iPad, or that it wouldn't be easier on a desktop/laptop OS. And yes I know there's some (creative/primary - not augmenting something else you're doing) work that does work better on iOS^. But that's an exception, not the rule. ^I mention the OS and not the tablet form factor because (as the article mentions) that is the main problem here. And none of this really matters, it's fine to have a tablet with an OS that's tailored for certain use cases. But people keep trying to claim that an iPad can replace a regular PC, and that's just not true for a lot of people.

173 points by tobr 7y ago

You'd have to say the same about Android tablets and Windows tablets too. These tick more of the boxes but they have not really connected w/ the market.

hocuspocus 7y ago
I see a lot of Windows tablets and hybrid laptops at my work. Many PMs seem to enjoy them. As for Android tablets, Google never really took them seriously and it shows.
- duxup 7y ago
  Yeah Google gave it some lip service for a little bit and then just walked away from any serious help for Android tablets. Granted ChromeOS and Chromebooks have done a good job of covering some of the tablet use case space, obviously not entirely, but it seems like a better place to focus.

cmcd 7y ago

These failures apply to every tablet that is not running a full desktop OS. Of these the iPad is far and away the best option currently.

rchaud 7y ago
How so? Android has a file system that's accessible to the user out of the box, and there are numerous file manager apps on the Play Store in addition to whatever the OEM packaged in the Android OS image. While the Play Store may be a walled garden, Android doesn't stop you from installing APKs from third parties. In addition to that, Android has had mouse support since at least 2012. It took Apple what, 8 generations to add it into iPad OS? However, your overall point is correct. the Ipad is more successful as a "productivity" tool than Android among regular people, despite the suite of Microsoft Office apps being fairly similar in quality across both. I'm assuming that Office style apps are what's mostly being used, and not specialist apps like Procreate or Affinity which are iOS only. My guess is that people are more willing to buy Apple for tablet productivity as their support is more reliably available and it's easy to get third party accessories. On the Android side there is no such guarantee. Samsung is only OEM even attempting to compete with the iPad Pro, but its support doesn't have the same reputation and accessories aren't always available in all markets.
- thrower123 7y ago
  Android has a file system, but almost every app goes out of its way to hide that fact from you. I have almost no idea where any particular app is going to save files to, and so it's playing needle in a haystack every time I want to open a file created by one app in a different one.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    This is another case where Apple didn't invent something, but made the best version of it. For a device that didn't have a public file system until recently, the iPad's both works and makes sense. It's iPod, mobile phone, Bluetooth headphones all over again, on a feature level.
- miskin 7y ago
  This is why I wonder about the reasoning in the article. You have platforms that are NOT walled gardens, where you CAN write your own great file manager and those also have same ballpark hardware, yet nobody rushed to write this groundbreaking filemanager that would trigger platform success remotely comparable to iPadOS. Maybe, this is not about walled gardens and filemanagers? Maybe there are best tools for certain tasks and for author's job tablet is just not the right one? Since I got my first ipad 10 years ago I almost exclusively read things on it instead of my notebook. And I read a lot and it is part of my work. But I never expected it to replace my notebook or phone.
ekianjo 7y ago
> Of these the iPad is far and away the best option currently. Except when it isn't. When you actually need to transfer a file from/to an Ipad to another device, and that you cannot access the file system and you don't have any other Apple device to do so, this is the hardest device to work with. I remember being honestly puzzled as to how to do it, and looking online for numerous "solutions", all of which involved installing more applications to hopefully do the trick. Pure horror. (It was, as far as I know, impossible to transfer files even thru a direct USB connection without any specific application - meaning USB was completely useless by default).
- brandonhorst 7y ago
  None of this is true in modern iOS.
ansible 7y ago
You can get a tablet running ChromeOS, and then install the Linux subsystem on it. You then have a full CLI environment to code in.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

> When the original Mac came out, it didn’t have multitasking, either. What is the author referring to, exactly? I've seen screenshots of the original Mac with multiple windows open on screen.

amiga-workbench 7y ago
Windows, perhaps. Programs? No. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiFinder
simongray 7y ago
Only the included desk accessories worked like that, not normal applications: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_1#Desk_accessories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_1#Desk_accessories
braythwayt 7y ago
One of the first architectural decisions that Bud and I made for the Macintosh system software in the spring of 1981 was that we were only going to try to run one application at a time. We barely had enough RAM or screen space to do even that, and we thought that we'd benefit from the resultant simplifications. Besides, multi-tasking was supposed to be Lisa's forte, and we didn't want to usurp all of the reasons for buying a Lisa. --Andy Hertzfeld In the original MacOS, only one program* ran at a time. You could have multiple MacPaint windows, for example, but if you wanted to use MacDraw, you'd have to quit MacPaint. From a process point of view, this was single-tasking. Andy Hertzfeld wrote the first multi-process environment for Macintosh, "Switcher." With Switcher, you could have MacPaint and MacDraw (or any combination of as many as four apps) open simultaneously. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Switcher.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor... Only one would control the entire screen, so if you were using MacPaint, the MacDraw (for example) windows were hidden. When you "switched" to another app, it was like side-scrolling the entire screen, the entire desktop scrolled horizontally to the left or the right and another scrolled into view. Later on, MacintoshOS (pre OS X) acquired its own cooperative multi-tasking capabilities, and when that happened, you could have multiple windows from multiple apps visible on the screen at the same time and switch by clicking on another window. It was quite the hack for its day, and had a cool UX, it was like having four Macintoshes arranged in a carouself, you could "switch" between processes. --- As another comment points out, there was another thing called a "Desk Accessory" that could co-exist on the screen with a full application. But these were not full applications and had very limited capabilities. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Desk_Ornaments.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...

notacoward 7y ago

I don't think it's true that users generally want things to be file-centric instead of app-centric. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The underlying lack of data integration between apps - even simple copy and paste can't be relied on - is a bigger stumbling block. It's also odd that the screen-layout and I/O limitations don't feature more prominently. The author's larger point - that you don't have to spend so much effort telling people something is useful if it really is - rings true, but I'm not sure they make a very good case for it.

m23khan 7y ago

I personally find iPad (or any other tablet for that matter) a big hit when it comes to device usage for small kids as well as using as a interactive screen for customers in retail shops. But yeah, other than that, it would be hard to be productive with just a tablet I reckon.

braythwayt 7y ago
I use an iPad Pro as my primary personal device. I have used it to write a book, and to write code for GitHub. I would use it in my current job, however we have very strict rules about what we are and are not allowed to do with personal devices regardless of their make and model. It's quite amazing how capable it is once you rustle up a git client, and editor, and a wireless keyboard.
- LegitShady 7y ago
  Your usage case seems like almost any tablet device could have worked though.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    Yes but the biggest success of the iPad lies mostly in there are no alternatives left. Almost everyone else has left the market. At this point if you’re buying a tablet that’s not an iPad, you really have to go out of your way to make that justification.
bob1029 7y ago
>using as a interactive screen for customers in retail shops. This is precisely what we are using iPads for right now. Our clients and end customers are very comfortable using Apple hardware. The screen size on these devices is perfect for most interactions. If you have the device in landscape, it's about as wide as a 8.5x11" document at 1:1 scale. Also, it is intuitive for most of our users to capture photos of documents or read barcodes using iPads. If I had to build this using USB webcams or even laptops with embedded webcams it would be far trickier from a UX perspective. Also, some of our clients have iPads with LTE connectivity so they can seamlessly go into the field and work with end customers who don't have time to come to them. That said, the app development ecosystem around Apple is a fucking nightmare. Signing your apps, dealing with regressions after iOS major version updates, trying to do anything at all inside XCode, attempting to automate your builds, etc. This is why we are looking at supporting a wider range of devices heading into 2021 - Surface/Win10, Android, and PWA. IMO the holy grail is PWA, Apple just needs to give it better support (I am quite aware of why they do not want to). If we could somehow get everything working via PWA, we would immediately dumpster the iOS codebase and do the whole thing exclusively using Blazor server-side.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> real work is typically file-centric What is this silly ‘real work’ gate-keeping? I guess the author means their work. My fitness instructor uses an iPad to refer to fitness plans. He’s doing real work. He uses files to do it as well! Opening an Excel spreadsheet. My friend is an outdoor teacher and uses an iPad as a map. He’s doing real work. Maps are files. Another friend works as a train engineer and uses an iPad to refer to technical manuals. He’s doing real work. The manuals are PDF files. My colleagues who do recruitment at conferences take people’s details on iPads. They’re doing real work too. Each form filled in is a file.

thisisnico 7y ago
I use an iPad at my site for crane and forklift checklists with operators.
- totallynotabot 7y ago
  Out of curiosity, what app do you use?
  - thisisnico 7y ago
    Honestly, the apps for this cost like 3-10K a year, and we're a small facility and a small factory, with a single iPad. So we have this web-based software named SimplyISO, We created the templates and forms/checklists in there, managers get reports etc, we threw the iPad into Kiosk mode to lock it down.
aphextim 7y ago
Our company pilot uses his iPad and foreflight all the time. I am pretty sure flying a plane is real work too.
braythwayt 7y ago
I built features for GitHub on an iPad 2. TIL that things like rich prose diffs aren't real work.

jxdxbx 7y ago

I've read so many of these articles lately. People seem to approach the iPad expecting it to work like a laptop, and when it doesn't, they're off to compose a thinkpiece. Many of these articles also state as a fact things that haven't been true of iPads for a while. If you want a file-centric experience you can have it--at least if you select apps that have been updated in the past several years. All of my files are stored in iCloud Drive, which is synced to my Macs just like Dropbox, and which works flawlessly with iPhone and iPad apps that properly implement the Files app APIs. I don't have any data silos. Yet I view the option of using an iPad purely as an app jukebox with data silos as a major win for many, many users. I stopped using laptops years ago. No, I can't do everything on an iPad Pro. But I find iPadOS to be a superior operating system for a small, portable screen. (I'm defining small as below 20"). I use a 27" iMac for more advanced tasks (as well as a media server, etc).

freehunter 7y ago
Many people approach the iPad in the same way people approached the cloud a few years ago. They try to treat it like the older technology it’s meant to replace, and when it doesn’t work the same they will proclaim “it’s not the cloud it’s just someone else’s data center!” It took a cloud native approach to really get the real benefit from the cloud. It takes an iPad native approach to benefit from the iPad.

wayneftw 7y ago

> Nobody wrote any articles about how, actually, real work on a Mac is possible. Yes they did. Back then Apple also did something called "advertising" to try and convince enterprise users that Macs could be used in a business environment. In more recent times they resorted to a very petty form of advertisement that, by way of direct, cherry picked comparison points, they tried to convince everybody that Macs were just as good as Windows PCs. At that time there were tons of articles commissioned to push the same point and even whole websites. It was never really true though and it still isn't. Macs were only any good for certain workloads, just like the iPad, and only if you could look past their wonky UI and hardware design choices.

cosmiccatnap 7y ago
This is what I've found to be the most true. For years people talked about the Mac devices being so much better for development and creativity but after dealing with one for a year all I can say is that it's got a Unix terminal which is better than windows but falls short compared to a Linux system. Android is the same, having tried the iPad and the iPhone because it was faster and had a better interface I soon realized it was just a toy painted to be a device for adults and no real speed improvement was noticed for anything but mobile games which I don't play anyway, I switched back to a note and threw Manjaro on a laptop and I've been more productive with that combo than any I've tried... I can't even imagine what you would or could use an iPad for that a thin laptop like the xps wouldn't run circles around even in terms of portability. It just seems to me like these people bought a very expensive 2 year old computer and need to justify it to themselves and others.

lordleft 7y ago

Honestly, Apple is asking for this kind of scrutiny when they apply the 'pro' moniker to any and every product. My iPad Pro is incredible and I love using it, but there is still so much friction involved in doing certain things that are way simpler on my desktop machines.

zerkten 7y ago
I tend to agree. I've got an iPad Pro, but my MacBook Pro is still my default for activities which are often possible, but awkward on the iPad. What Apple seems to have done though is avoid an uncontained failure. I could have seen other tech leadership teams going all in on the iPad Pro, and removing/deprecating other lines completely at this point. They've started incremental investment in the iPad after years of low/no investment. This seems like a better strategy to realise the full capabilities of the product while retaining what works. This is too slow for some people, but I don't know of another option, especially when an ARM transition on laptops is a consideration.

gargs 7y ago

I feel that a lot of the shortcomings of the iPad as a platform are really a consequence of the chicken or egg problem. For the platform to be viable, you need a lot of good apps, and to make good apps a possibility, the platform needs to be monetizable. Currently, the iPad lacks on all 2 fronts. Apple isn't leading either on the software front. All the stock apps are just resized apps of their iOS counterparts with nothing extraordinary about them. Most happy users are just using a bigger web-browser, or a bigger drawing app (with the same functionality as on smaller screens), or custom apps that are uploaded on an educational/enterprise portal and are a job requirement. A lot of families use it as an entertainment/learning device for their children where its processing power is underused. There is almost no money to be made as a developer if you spend all that effort supporting multitasking or adding nice iPadOS-only features. Customers won't pay and Apple only makes your life harder with every OS release.

bhauer 7y ago

Since 2015 or thereabouts, my opinion has been that tablets plateaued and have faltered because of what I call "Yet Another Application Platform Dilemma." [1] Many people who already have a PC and phone don't really want, let alone need, another in-between device that they have to babysit and manage. That said, I agree with the OP's argument, which is effectively that if you have to go out of your way to say, "No really, you can do real work on an iPad," you have missed the point. Of course you can do real work on a lot of devices. Is the device particularly good at it, though? Maybe, in some cases. But for a large number of us—and apparently that number is large enough to slow tablet sales—doing work on a tablet is just not good enough. We're either in "Work mode" where a laptop is better or in "Consumption mode" where the laptop or phone is just fine. It's funny that in this thread people are saying the same thing that the OP pointed out. In effect: "You can do real work on an iPad." Great. But the topic at hand, whether you care about it or not, is conjecture about why the devices are not selling better. [1] https://tiamat.tsotech.com/why-tablet-sales-are-falling https://tiamat.tsotech.com/why-tablet-sales-are-falling

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rossdavidh 7y ago
For about 20 years, I have been observing the paper-book-to-tablet ratio when I'm on the bus. Of course, back when I started it was because I was wondering if tablets would do away with paper books. Now it's just out of habit, because in fact the smartphone turned out to be an unintentional ally of paper books. I see people with both paper books and smartphones, but people don't normally want to carry two screen devices with them, and they sure aren't giving up their phones. So the tablet/e-reader/whatever-you-call-it peaked 5-10 years ago. Of course, this discussion is about work, not how one reads books, but I think something similar is happening. Tablets are too close to other devices (laptops, smartphones) which are not going away, and therefore they are appear to have hit a hard upper limit. My 14-year old daughter used to use tablets; now she uses her chromebook, her smartphone, and her desktop, but never an iPad. Most impressively, she even uses a Wacom tablet, which she plugs into her desktop, because she liked it better than the iPad for drawing. I think she is not alone, and people her age will go into the workforce more accustomed to using phones and laptops to get things done.

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abrax3141 7y ago

The iPad is awesome for kids < 13 (please keep your chocolate-covered hands off my laptop keyboard!!), and when I just want to consume media.

ako 7y ago
My son has an Xbox one, desktop with decent cpu/Gpu, and an iPhone 7. Still he recently bought an iPad from his own savings because he likes it best for gaming...

dreamcompiler 7y ago

I wish we lived in a world where we had hardware as nice as the iPad that anyone could write software for--at any level--with no control or veto power by any single big company (or country).

eloisant 7y ago
Well, technically anyone can create an Android app and distribute it directly without going through the Play Store. "As nice as the iPad" is subjective but there are pretty nice Android tablets out there.
- notatoad 7y ago
  i've tried out a fair number of the android tablets and imho they're all a long ways off from being as nice as the iPad. The only tablet hardware that really comes close to the iPad for me is the Surface. I really want android (or chromeOS) tablets to be as good, because i'd much rather use android apps than windows or iPad apps, but the hardware just sucks.

raiyu 7y ago

Most obvious and best use case has been the proliferation of point of sale systems especially to small businesses which couldn’t make a large investment in that area before.

daturkel 7y ago

This article is oddly similar to the Daring Fireball article that just came out and was just posted on HN. Both talk about how, 10 years in, the iPad has failed to revolutionize computing and both complain about awkward UX. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22166421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22166421 https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/the_ipad_awkwardly_turns_10 https://daringfireball.net/2020/01/the_ipad_awkwardly_turns_...

hinkley 7y ago
Someone replied on that thread that the iPad doesn’t quite have the same upgrade treadmill as other devices. I made do with my iPad mini 2 when it started having a video glitch during the long gap between the 4 and the 5. Then I finally bought the new one. That was almost five years for me. Another one said they were common with children, which is true. But if they grow out of them, then they also might not be replaced that often. Birth rate in the first world is steady or falling. High end device sales for children should tend to follow.

gwbas1c 7y ago

I just want a Macbook where I can fold over the screen and it's an iPad. Then I want to be able to use iPad applications in Macos. Is that too much to ask for?

reaperducer 7y ago
If you're willing to pay a $400 premium for such a device, you could just Velcro an iPad to a MacBook.

ngcc_hk 7y ago

It is not a failure if it is part of an ecosystem. Just got 3 as book and note writer. Perfect.

paulhodge 7y ago

> The thing that truly hurts the iPad is the App Store. I'm skeptical if the situation would be better without an app store. The app store provides monetization and that leads to higher quality apps. I think what we'd really want is for iPadOS to open up to more integrations, like an integration app that offers a different home screen / app switcher / task manager experience.

SllX 7y ago

Choosing a tablet over a laptop or any other kind of computer is all about the tradeoffs you are willing to make. There are some circumstances where the combination of portability and screen real estate makes it a better choice than a laptop or a phone. There are some applications that are more well suited to tablets, and some that are more well suited to a laptop, desktop, server or phone instead. They’re all computers, there’s not many reasons you couldn’t run a web server off a tablet or phone, it’s more a case of choosing the right tool for the right job at the right time. From that perspective, iPads and tablets in general are just a different tool, you can beat a nail in with an iPad in a pinch, maybe, but why not just grab an actual hammer? But that’s boring. It doesn’t play into the narrative that tablets, with iPads at the vanguard, were or are predestined to replace laptops entirely in exactly the same way that GUIs replaced what we used to call command-line interfaces and surely not a single soul on Earth uses those anymore. Obviously the only thing holding this back is Apple’s own policies, and if they would just let the next Adobe rise up and take their rightful place as a software giant making tools for iPads, surely its destiny as a laptop-murderer would be fulfilled. That would be so much better than merely being absolutely top tier for digital painting, digital clipboards, digital books, bedtime movies, and at least being serviceable as a third-rate cash register. tl;dr: laptop-murder is more exciting than another tool to choose to have in your tool belt or not.

Someone 7y ago

If only my failures were like the iPad... The laptop is about four times as old as the iPad, and it hasn’t fully replaced the desktop either.

Y-Bopinator 7y ago

I use a Files app on iOS so I can work with files. I edit PDFs and word documents with Pages. I have my email, everything I would need on a PC plus SMS and phone. This author has it all wrong. The reason Apple sucks is because of what they’re doing in China and their devices are overpriced.

ryuukk_ 7y ago

lol, microsoft propaganda they can't replicate Apple's success storieS with a big S so the only thing they can do is spread fake news their dual screen bullshit is a joke, just like their pseudo HTML alternative that everyone is hating called XAML

kebman 7y ago

iPad is favoured by many artists for making illustrations and art. Outside this niche, I tend to agree with the article.

GeekyBear 7y ago

Stephen Sinofsky, who led the Windows team at the time the iPhone and iPad were introduced, had a very different take on the iPad that he recently shared. >In first year 2010–2011 Apple sold 20 million iPads. That same year would turn out to be an historical high water mark for PCs (365M, ~180M laptops). Analysts had forecasted more than 500M PCs were now rapidly increasing tablet forecasts to 100’s of million and dropping PC. The iPad and iPhone were soundly existential threats to Microsoft’s core platform business. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/305359-happy-10th-ipad-steven-sinofsky-reflects-on-microsofts-perspective https://www.extremetech.com/computing/305359-happy-10th-ipad...

reaperducer 7y ago

The Failure of the iPad 200 million units sold. $10 billion in quarterly revenue. Man, I wish I could have that kind of "failure."

compiler-guy 7y ago
If an unknown startup's only product was the iPad, it would be a unicorn of mega proportions and the toast of hacker news.

tjpaudio 7y ago

While I agree with the author's sentiment that it hasn't really panned out for professional work, the title is not right. When the iPad came out, I dumped my Apple stock before the quarter where they would report on sales. The stock at the time was heavily forward valued on lots of iPad sales happening. Apple had failed to gain traction with all it's previous ultra-mobile computing products in the past, all of them marketed for productivity. Why would this one be different? Tablets were available in the stores, but they weren't selling. I figured it would be another case of the early adopters getting overly jazzed about a product nobody wanted. I was wrong. The iPad saw adoption by the everyday consumer. Give it to the kids so they could play games, watch videos and stop bothering mom. Mom liked how simple it was to check her email. Etc. They created an entire new market. THAT, is not a failure.

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jaredcwhite 7y ago

"Why do people keep posting articles about people doing real work on an iPad?" Because people like the author of this blog post keep saying that people can't use the iPad to get real work done. At this point, it's become maddening. Do I still carry a Mac laptop around with me? Yes. Are there some things I can do on a Mac I can't do on an iPad? Yes. But it goes both ways. Are there some things I can do on an iPad I can't do on a Mac? Unequivocally yes. Does that mean, in those contexts, I should throw shade at the Mac and say people can't get "real work" done on the Mac? No, that's absurd. A smartphone != tablet != laptop != desktop != watch != smart speaker, etc., etc. Different devices for difference purposes, and the fact they all overlap in many ways is a nice bonus, not a problem to bemoan.

p1necone 7y ago
The laptop/desktop form factor is a physical barrier to the kinds of things that tablets are good for (portability, drawing, good for reading documents while working etc etc). But there's not reason why you shouldn't be able to use the iPad for the stuff you currently need a laptop/desktop running mac os for other than software. I should be able to chuck a keyboard cover on an iPad and use it for all the same stuff I use a desktop pc for (albeit with a smaller screen), but I can't - because Apple intentionally puts a less feature rich operating system on the device (and has a restricted app store that explicitly disallows certain use cases).
- Terretta 7y ago
  > but I can’t But many can, and barring certain industry specific specialty tools, I’m unfamiliar with everyday laptop software for everyday people that doesn’t have a plausible counterpart.

m0zg 7y ago

iPad would succeed a lot more if there was no iPhone to compete with it. As things are right now, iPad is an afterthought for iOS developers mostly, and an expensive afterthought at that, because larger screen requires different UI. This creates a vicious cycle because there isn't really that much you can do with it, so there's no good reason to buy it unless a wad of cash is burning a hole in your pocket (which is common for Apple clientele).

ohazi 7y ago

Everyone in this thread getting offended by casual use of the term "real work" is missing the point. The iPad can obviously be used for "real work" -- but the point of this argument is not to criticize people and the work that they do, it's to criticize the limitations of the iPad's operating system. Computer power users like composability, interoperability, "unix philosophy" / "do one thing well" -- whatever you want to call it -- because it's a powerful tool. RodgerTheGreat summed it up really well: > On a desktop, any user can invent new workflows. On an ipad, a user can only buy them wholesale. Users are at the mercy of the degree of forethought the app developers put into their designs. Power users are frustrated because we like the iPad hardware and want to be able to use it, but Apple seems to have latched onto the idea that good tablet design requires them to sacrifice this idea. I and many others don't believe this is necessarily a requirement. Yes, the form factor is different, and you need to be careful with input methods, but good composability should still be possible, and could even be better than on a PC -- but Apple doesn't seem interested in actually trying. That's the criticism.

mstolpm 7y ago
The criticism is that the iPad isn't better than a PC? Neither is a hammer or a saw ... but both are used professionally every minute. The iPad is a tool. Would someone argue that a hammer is flawed because it only can be used in some ways, some professions and for some tasks? A laptop is a tool, a PC is a tool, a mainframe is a tool, a calculator is a tool and a saw is a tool. So what? Of course, a PC might be a better tool for your workflow, your work, your results. But that might be different for someone else. Work with the tools that fits your needs best! Why do we need to criticize one tool because it is not equal or better to another? Gruber is right in regards of discoverability and consistency of (multitasking) gestures on iPadOS. There is room for improvement. The lack of "professional" iPad software should be directed more towards the developers than Apple - why needs some iPad app to be crippled in comparison to its Mac counterpart? Valid concerns. But calling the iPad a failure because it doesn't fit to your work, your workflow and your processes? Because it isn't the ultimate general purpose tool? I know authors still using a typewriter. I know some that use iPads because of the "single app interface" and less distraction. I know others using laptops (and complaining about distraction). All are doing "real" work (as many other professions mentioned in this thread) and all have their preferred way of working. If a developer/power user is happy with his Mac/Win/Linux setup, why does s/he need to criticize the iPad for NOT being the right tool? Or are these folks just unhappy with their setups and desperately hoping Apple will give them a better (-toy-) tool for less bucks? Or is it just en vogue to bash Apple?

p1necone 7y ago

A lot of people in here arguing that the iPad isn't for lesser work than a desktop or laptop, just different work. I think this is largely true, however the frustration (at least for me) comes from the fact that this shouldn't need to be the case. With a few tweaks to the OS, and a keyboard cover the iPad could be used for all the things that iPads are currently used for and all the things that people still need desktops/laptops for. I think the frustration is coming from people who see that they're being unnecessarily constrained. Even being able to dual boot iOS or macOS would solve the problem.

murphy214 7y ago

I get the real work argument but I think real work from real professionals is slowly permeate to the iPad for example Madlib (prolific hip-hop producer) produced his entire last album on an iPad and it was seen as a pretty big deal in the professional music world. (I think)

rs23296008n1 7y ago

I use my ipad pro 12.9" for real-as-in-paying-work. Good luck trying to take my ipads away. I've two of them. Theres a few more around that aren't mine. Checking email, general websites, discord use, videoconf, etc etc all on ipad. Drawing, sketching, music generation. Excellent. What is not so good: No support for tough work background threads. Don't suggest Spotify as counter-example. Audio streaming is a non-challenge for modern cpus. No support for on-device app development. Both of my ipads leave my raspberry pi computers in the dust in terms of ram, processing power and graphics. Yet, each pi is more functional as a general machine because I can easily remote into them. I can easily build code on a pi and run it. Using ipad I need something like Pythonista to get anywhere near the same. Workflow is useful. I don't think my ipad pro deserves the "pro" moniker however. It is moving towards but it is no where ready. Don't believe me? Look at the apps for email as just one example. Try setting up filters/labels in a ios app like gmail. For that matter, show me all the headers for a particular email. Can't. Basic things I'd like to do. Especially with spam handling. A pro device doesn't have stripped down interfaces. It can have hidden functionality revealed through a setting. Even a few 70 year olds have complained to me about limitations with the various email and calendar apps. They use desktops for "complex" tasks. Why can't other browsers use non-safari engine? Why no extensions support for browsers? Its the dumb-it-down-for-ipad mindset that is holding the ipad from being a true pro device. SSH on ipad is what keeps my ipad useful for development. Thats real enough for me. Why can't I run a compiler natively on the ipad? Its got the processing power. Wheels for the mind. Make it happen Apple.

washadjeffmad 7y ago
Apple absolutely nails the generalist and prosumer space but leaves me baffled by their posturing towards industry adoption. As a JAMF swilling AASP, I've lost my patience at the slaverers (it's always the webdevs) and share my opinion freely that the "Pro" in MacWhatever Pro means "an accessory for someone who considers themself a professional", not "professional-grade equipment". I consider it part of a healthy aspirational realignment. Some move on, others try to prove me wrong. Both end up closer to their enlightenment. Although, all it would take to flip me on iPads is something like Chromebook's Crouton, and I'd lifecycle every MacBook Air with an iPad Pro 2nd Gen and offer them in place of MacBook Pros. They're almost amazing, and it just hurts that there's either no support or no feature parity with the major creative and engineering software we license. iPads are top notch for media and productivity, but the platform's niche utility is way outclassed by its own hardware and other products more common in industry.

robomartin 7y ago

What frustrates me about the i<thing> and smart-phone ecosystem in general is the abject lack of integration with computers and, in the case of i<things>, the lack of sensible file system access, memory card slot, f-ing cursor control, and more. Simple example: Why can't I pop-up my iPhone X screen as a window on one of my three workstation monitors (Windows 10) and run it from my computer? Why can't I make calls with it from my computer? Why can't I click on a phone number on a web page in Chrome and dial it with my phone? Why can't I type a text message from my PC keyboard and send it with the phone? Why can't I copy and paste onto the phone? Why can't I copy and paste an image and send it with the phone? Why can't I do the reverse and grab things from the phone from my PC? Why can't I access a file system transparently (other than images)? For that matter, why can't I transfer large videos? Why can't I use my PC headset through the PC to communicate using the phone? I mean, the thing sits there ALL DAY, 10 to 12 hours a day, right next to my workstation. If I want to do anything with it I have to go from a full size keyboard with arrow keys and all kinds of nice things as well as a beautifully efficient trackball to typing with one finger on a small screen and using the f-ing ridiculous select-copy-paste mechanism, etc. If I want to send someone a link from my PC I have to email it or SMS it to myself, grab the phone, disconnect it from the charge cord (because it is inconvenient to do anything with it plugged in), go to SMS, email or FB messenger, copy the link, go back to wherever I need to go to send it, paste it and click send. It's 2020. The phone should meld into the computer with full transparent operability. Same for tablets. BTW, this is what I was hoping Microsoft would finally bring to life with Windows Phone. I was eagerly awaiting this one killer integration. I firmly believe that would have inspired, I don't know, a billion people world-wide to adopt Windows Phone. Instead they wasted time trying to make it an iPhone killer. It didn't need to be that. All it had to do is become symbiotic with a PC in all possible ways and it would have been an absolute hit. Here's hoping they try again. If anyone from MS is watching, call me, I know exactly what you have to build (and you guys have no clue).

pvg 7y ago
An awful lot of this integration exists, between iOS devices and Macs. Windows 10 seems to be getting some better integration with Android in recent beta releases, take a look at the release notes of a recent 'Fast Ring' update.

King-Aaron 7y ago

The iPad made something like $19 billion in revenue for Apple last year. Such a failure

dharma1 7y ago

I love the form factor of iPad, and with a physical keyboard it's starting to be quite good. But... I can't design UIs on it (no Figma or Sketch - yes there are some vector drawing apps but they don't compare) I can't edit high quality video on it (locked down codecs - only h264/h265, no prores, no raw codecs, no ability to install codecs beyond what the OS provides) I can't use an iPad to write software for iPad (no xcode) File management with iOS13 is better but still clunky compared to desktop OS's. Yes there are many things you can do with it that qualify as work for many people, but compared to desktop it's still very much lacking in many areas, and not really progressing significantly either. I wish iOS was more extensible by users and it could have a better chance

sigzero 7y ago

I feel the author doesn't like the iPad even if his conclusions are absurd.

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mantap 7y ago

The iPad by virtue of its form factor, sucks for typing anything longer than a short message. You can't hold it comfortably like a smartphone, or place it on an unsturdy surface like a laptop. Everything about the typing experience on an iPad feels distinctly second class. This is a problem for a computing device because writing is a pillar of human culture and economy. A device that places writing second is a device that has excluded itself from vast swathes of what people use computers for. iPads are good at many thing that involves passive consumption, or drawing using the Pencil, or pressing buttons, etc. I have an iPad and it complements my laptop well - I use it for reading music. The iPad is not a failure. But it's also not replacing my laptop. It is an accessory to it. I'm sure that Apple, a company that sold me both devices, is ecstatic about that.

Terretta 7y ago
On the contrary, the iPad Pro with Apple Smart Keyboard is spectacular for typing all the things — anywhere you happen to be. Takes up half the depth of a laptop, or braces firmly on your lap. In fact, given the way it’s balanced, only takes about 2” of table ledge, the keyboard can hang in the air and still firm enough to type on. It places writing first, whether with pencil or keyboard, no laptop does both as well.
knolax 7y ago
Ironic that a machine proportioned and named after a writing medium can't handle writing well.

thordenmark 7y ago

I do plenty of "real work" on the iPad. It has replaced my laptop for most of the writing and designing I do away from my desktop.

Jemm 7y ago

Mac and iPad will become much closer when Apple starts gatekeeping Mac apps, which has already begun.

theshadowknows 7y ago

I admit I’m in the minority but for my purposes my iPad fits every need that I have for a computer which is I can do all of my work when I’m away from my desk on it. I do a lot of work in Salesforce, I write a lot of sql, I write a lot of JavaScript, I write a lot of Python, and I write a fair amount of Go. I write and respond to a lot of emails. I talk to people on Teams. I do a lot of work in Adobe Analytics, Hue, Jira, SFMC. The main thing that I’ve had a tough time replacing (and I’d be so thrilled if someone here has a good suggestion) is Postman. Because I write tons of little example payloads for APIs to send off to developers to get them started on projects or to test internal stuff. I’d love a native solution for that.

p1necone 7y ago

The comments on this thread are immensely frustrating. Just because all the work you need to do can be done on an iPad doesn't mean that all the work everyone needs to do can be done on an iPad, or that it wouldn't be easier on a desktop/laptop OS. And yes I know there's some (creative/primary - not augmenting something else you're doing) work that does work better on iOS^. But that's an exception, not the rule. ^I mention the OS and not the tablet form factor because (as the article mentions) that is the main problem here. And none of this really matters, it's fine to have a tablet with an OS that's tailored for certain use cases. But people keep trying to claim that an iPad can replace a regular PC, and that's just not true for a lot of people.