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Not to speak of the costs of waste disposal. https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+panel+waste https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+panel+waste

bb88 7y ago
I found this article illuminating on that topic: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jun/04/the-latest-weak-attacks-on-evs-and-solar-panels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97...
- kragen 7y ago
  Even the Grauniad article is giving far too much credit to the waste concerns; it talks a lot about the risks of cadmium leaching, for example, but the panels in current massive deployment don't contain cadmium. (By contrast, cadmium was a common anti-corrosion cladding metal for ships 50 years ago, and while it caused environmental problems, it was far from an environmental disaster. We aren't talking about PCBs or mustard gas here.)
- nickik 7y ago
  > About 80% of a solar panel module can be recycled Operative word here is 'can'. The reality is that this is not happening for the most part and there is no standard solution in sight. > The Electric Power Research Institute notes that long-term storage of used panels until recycling technologies become available may be the best option for dealing with this waste stream. Ultimately, it’s an issue that will need to be addressed as solar panels become more widespread and reach the end of their 25-plus year lifespan, much like the issue of nuclear waste. But it’s an issue that we should be able to resolve with smart policies and technologies. Unlike with nuclear waste, this is not actually regulated or managed, most of solar cell waste is simple general electronics waste and gets resold to Africa where kids can get to take it apart. Solar also produces about 1000x more waste in volume. In comparison not a single gram of the wast from nuclear escapes into the environment. Its all captured and accounted for, and in most countries already financed by part of the electricity price. The US already has a huge saving account with money (that is politically deadlocked). I really don't see how this is a defense. > But that’s only a problem for broken panels, which are relatively rare except perhaps in the wake a natural disaster like a hurricane or earthquake. In a disaster area, leaching of metals from some broken solar panels is the least of a city’s problems. I agree that that is not to bad of a concern. This articles seems to basically say, 'well, Michael Shellenberger, was right' BUT technology can eventually solve this. This is incredibly weak defense when it comes to the nuclear critics. They are right on some of the EV stuff, but that's not what we are talking about.
  - kragen 7y ago
    > Operative word here is 'can'. The reality is that this is not happening for the most part and there is no standard solution in sight. The reality is that the vast majority of solar panels are still in operation, not junked, so they are being reused rather than recycled, which is even better. > Unlike with nuclear waste, this is not actually regulated or managed Well, not any more than things like concrete. You can still get fined for littering if you dump broken solar panels. But there's no reason it should be regulated or managed; broken solar panels are less toxic than things like concrete, chicken bones, fluorescent light tubes, and brass pot scrubbers, and enormously less toxic than things like used cars and CRT TVs. (Even the tiny fraction of solar cells that are the CdTe thin-film type contain only a tiny amount of cadmium or tellurium.) Spent fuel from nuclear reactors, by contrast, is extremely dangerous, and it makes sense to treat it specially. > most of solar cell waste is simple general electronics waste No, that is not true. The usual kind of solar cells are not circuit boards; they are silicon chips, although much larger than the usual kind, and mostly polycrystalline rather than monocrystalline. They are covered by a sheet of glass which is many times heavier than the cells themselves. I am curious where you picked up such remarkable misconceptions about electronics recycling.

bb88 7y ago

I found this article illuminating on that topic: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/jun/04/the-latest-weak-attacks-on-evs-and-solar-panels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97...

kragen 7y ago
Even the Grauniad article is giving far too much credit to the waste concerns; it talks a lot about the risks of cadmium leaching, for example, but the panels in current massive deployment don't contain cadmium. (By contrast, cadmium was a common anti-corrosion cladding metal for ships 50 years ago, and while it caused environmental problems, it was far from an environmental disaster. We aren't talking about PCBs or mustard gas here.)
nickik 7y ago
> About 80% of a solar panel module can be recycled Operative word here is 'can'. The reality is that this is not happening for the most part and there is no standard solution in sight. > The Electric Power Research Institute notes that long-term storage of used panels until recycling technologies become available may be the best option for dealing with this waste stream. Ultimately, it’s an issue that will need to be addressed as solar panels become more widespread and reach the end of their 25-plus year lifespan, much like the issue of nuclear waste. But it’s an issue that we should be able to resolve with smart policies and technologies. Unlike with nuclear waste, this is not actually regulated or managed, most of solar cell waste is simple general electronics waste and gets resold to Africa where kids can get to take it apart. Solar also produces about 1000x more waste in volume. In comparison not a single gram of the wast from nuclear escapes into the environment. Its all captured and accounted for, and in most countries already financed by part of the electricity price. The US already has a huge saving account with money (that is politically deadlocked). I really don't see how this is a defense. > But that’s only a problem for broken panels, which are relatively rare except perhaps in the wake a natural disaster like a hurricane or earthquake. In a disaster area, leaching of metals from some broken solar panels is the least of a city’s problems. I agree that that is not to bad of a concern. This articles seems to basically say, 'well, Michael Shellenberger, was right' BUT technology can eventually solve this. This is incredibly weak defense when it comes to the nuclear critics. They are right on some of the EV stuff, but that's not what we are talking about.
- kragen 7y ago
  > Operative word here is 'can'. The reality is that this is not happening for the most part and there is no standard solution in sight. The reality is that the vast majority of solar panels are still in operation, not junked, so they are being reused rather than recycled, which is even better. > Unlike with nuclear waste, this is not actually regulated or managed Well, not any more than things like concrete. You can still get fined for littering if you dump broken solar panels. But there's no reason it should be regulated or managed; broken solar panels are less toxic than things like concrete, chicken bones, fluorescent light tubes, and brass pot scrubbers, and enormously less toxic than things like used cars and CRT TVs. (Even the tiny fraction of solar cells that are the CdTe thin-film type contain only a tiny amount of cadmium or tellurium.) Spent fuel from nuclear reactors, by contrast, is extremely dangerous, and it makes sense to treat it specially. > most of solar cell waste is simple general electronics waste No, that is not true. The usual kind of solar cells are not circuit boards; they are silicon chips, although much larger than the usual kind, and mostly polycrystalline rather than monocrystalline. They are covered by a sheet of glass which is many times heavier than the cells themselves. I am curious where you picked up such remarkable misconceptions about electronics recycling.