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> We need cars to go electric, etc. Marketing is once again far from the truth, check how co2 expensive producing a battery is. Then couple that with the fact

by pysxul 7y ago

> We need cars to go electric, etc. Marketing is once again far from the truth, check how co2 expensive producing a battery is. Then couple that with the fact that you need let's say 20 years of normal use of a car to "paybacck" that co2 footprint (comparing to an oil car). Last one is : are you going to keep that same electric car for 20 years?

read_if_gay_ 7y ago
Battery research should probably be the single most well funded area of research.
- danieldk 7y ago
  Or hydrogen production, hydrogen fuel cells, and hydrogen-based engines. Hydrogen can be created with electrolysis using solar, wind, or nuclear power. Hydrogen-based vehicles have a much better range. Refueling a hydrogen vehicle quicker than charging a battery. Also, it is easy to transport hydrogen to locations where there is no power grid. (I guess we should do both, but I feel like hydrogen as a fuel seems to be ignored.)
  - pjc50 7y ago
    Hydrogen is hard to handle - it is very good at leaking, including through things not normally thought of as porous like metals, and it has low energy density unless under high pressure. Synthetic CH4 from H2+extracted CO2 seems more likely to happen.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    I feel that if anyone took hydrogen seriously, they'd start talking about anhydrous ammonia. This compound actually contains more hydrogen by volume and pressure than elemental hydrogen does. It doesn't have the embrittlement issues that elemental hydrogen has. Ammonia liquefies at a much higher temperature and has a much higher heat of vaporization, which makes it easier to handle. It is a hazardous fuel, but not really more so than gasoline and definitely less so than elemental hydrogen. Anyway, there is already a well-developed infrastructure for handling anhydrous ammonia, because it is regularly used in agriculture. Any cheap and environmentally friendly process that produces hydrogen also produces ammonia, because ammonia is just hydrogen plus nitrogen. Because I very rarely see mention of ammonia as a fuel, I conclude that no one is seriously attempting to develop hydrogen fuel cells.
C14L 7y ago
Could you post a source or two? I read this claim a few times, but never seen a credible source to confirm the claim.
melling 7y ago
I’m not sure if your statement is true. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ev-battery-production-co2-emissions-new-study-results/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ev-battery-production-co2-em... Also, consider that we are in the early stages. Battery technology will improve.
giancarlostoro 7y ago
There are people still driving cars older than 20 years. If the car is able to last 20 years I am sure plenty of people would keep it that long. Most people trade in their car due to it giving them trouble. It winds up being cheaper to trade in for a new model.... Wonder if car companies are in on this...
aspratley 7y ago
Where are you getting your 20 year figure from? There's a study which says 10 years but doesn't account for the energy/co2 required to refine oil. EV battery packs can also be recycled as grid storage.

by pysxul 7y ago

read_if_gay_ 7y ago

Battery research should probably be the single most well funded area of research.

danieldk 7y ago
Or hydrogen production, hydrogen fuel cells, and hydrogen-based engines. Hydrogen can be created with electrolysis using solar, wind, or nuclear power. Hydrogen-based vehicles have a much better range. Refueling a hydrogen vehicle quicker than charging a battery. Also, it is easy to transport hydrogen to locations where there is no power grid. (I guess we should do both, but I feel like hydrogen as a fuel seems to be ignored.)
- pjc50 7y ago
  Hydrogen is hard to handle - it is very good at leaking, including through things not normally thought of as porous like metals, and it has low energy density unless under high pressure. Synthetic CH4 from H2+extracted CO2 seems more likely to happen.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  I feel that if anyone took hydrogen seriously, they'd start talking about anhydrous ammonia. This compound actually contains more hydrogen by volume and pressure than elemental hydrogen does. It doesn't have the embrittlement issues that elemental hydrogen has. Ammonia liquefies at a much higher temperature and has a much higher heat of vaporization, which makes it easier to handle. It is a hazardous fuel, but not really more so than gasoline and definitely less so than elemental hydrogen. Anyway, there is already a well-developed infrastructure for handling anhydrous ammonia, because it is regularly used in agriculture. Any cheap and environmentally friendly process that produces hydrogen also produces ammonia, because ammonia is just hydrogen plus nitrogen. Because I very rarely see mention of ammonia as a fuel, I conclude that no one is seriously attempting to develop hydrogen fuel cells.

C14L 7y ago

Could you post a source or two? I read this claim a few times, but never seen a credible source to confirm the claim.

melling 7y ago

I’m not sure if your statement is true. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ev-battery-production-co2-emissions-new-study-results/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-ev-battery-production-co2-em... Also, consider that we are in the early stages. Battery technology will improve.

giancarlostoro 7y ago

There are people still driving cars older than 20 years. If the car is able to last 20 years I am sure plenty of people would keep it that long. Most people trade in their car due to it giving them trouble. It winds up being cheaper to trade in for a new model.... Wonder if car companies are in on this...

aspratley 7y ago

Where are you getting your 20 year figure from? There's a study which says 10 years but doesn't account for the energy/co2 required to refine oil. EV battery packs can also be recycled as grid storage.