7 ms·

It's the card network (MasterCard, Visa, AE) that sells your data. They each have their own op out: * https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do

by robjan 7y ago

It's the card network (MasterCard, Visa, AE) that sells your data. They each have their own op out: * https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do * https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/.. https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/....

wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
Are these datas for sale in Europe as well?
- kuschku 7y ago
  With VISA and MasterCard yes, but e.g. the German girocard network on its own doesn’t sell anything, and there it depends on your bank (and most banks don’t sell that data either). So if you have the choice between using a girocard or a credit/debit card to buy a product, the credit/debit card is significantly more likely to sell all your data.
dd36 7y ago
It’s crazy that they do this yet still charge nearly 3%.
- dmayle 7y ago
  They don't charge 3%, they charge about a tenth of a percent (0.11%). What you think of as fees is actually a basket of charges going to different parties. almost 2% goes to your (the purchaser) credit card company to cover the risk of you not paying them, about a percent goes to the store's bank to cover the case when they have to give the money back (either because it was a fraudulent online transaction, or the store cheated the customer and the customer went to their card issuer, etc.) and that tiny little bit that's left goes to Visa/MasterCard. Credit transaction fees actually make lots of sense and are grounded in the actual cost of the financial product. As a merchant, you can choose to accept only debit cards to avoid the cost
  - JediWing 7y ago
    I get that this is how it works in the real world, but the argument that transaction fees are necessary for the credit company to cover the risk of the cardholder not paying is a bit feeble, because to my non-banker mind: that's what the interest rates are for. If someone is risky, simply don't approve their application, or raise their rate. Am I missing something?
    - philwelch 7y ago
      The 2% that goes back to the credit card company is what ends up paying for all the rewards points and cash back discounts—which work as mechanisms for you to get that money back so long as you actually pay your credit card bills.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    And if you’re a savvy customer you get “cash back rewards” from your credit card, meaning some of the fees just end up coming back to you.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      A "savvy" customer has a card that doesn't make them perform a dog and pony show like you describe. A savvy customer's card charges the lowest reasonable rate in order to provide the service. Giving someone money and then feeling all giddy when you get a "reward" later means you've been gamed.
      - brndn 7y ago
        > feeling all giddy when you get a "reward" later means you've been gamed. It doesn't really feel that way as you're flying to Hawaii for free.
        reaperducer 7y ago
        It doesn't really feel that way as you're flying to Hawaii for free. There is no free lunch.
jannes 7y ago
Anyone who wants to do this: Make sure that you also opt out your virtual card numbers (such as Apple Pay or Android Pay). Also, the opt-out of each number is only honored for FIVE years after which you need to opt-out again.
- tprynn 7y ago
  How can I opt out a virtual card number through Apple Pay? It doesn't seem that you can get the full "Device Account Number".
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    I'm not sure that the "Device Account Number" matters. As I recall from the presentation, that number changes with each purchase. And Goldman has promised (ha!) not to sell your information for marketing purposes. But it's still worth opting-out of your Apple Card's virtual number. The number is in the wallet app, ... > Card Information
  - jannes 7y ago
    I don't see the number exposed in Apple's UI, but I can definitely see it on my bank's website. It's possible that this is an implementation detail and some banks do it without a unique card number...
52-6F-62 7y ago
Your Mastercard URL got truncated somehow. It's a pretty easy search, though. Just the same, thanks for linking because I had no idea this was even an option: https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/privacy/data-analytics-opt-out.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/...
- b42 7y ago
  > To opt-out from our anonymization of your personal information to perform data analyses, please provide your Mastercard or Maestro payment card number below. This sounds like they are going to continue using my purchase data but without anonymization? Not a native speaker so perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the sentence.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    You're right. I don't think that's the intention, but that is certainly what the language implies. It's rather vaguely worded.
  - l33tman 7y ago
    I think they tried to formulate it so it will sound less damning for them, like they want to make it explicit that what they performed their data analysis on is your anonymized personal information.
TuringNYC 7y ago
Do they have access to purchase line items or only the overall transaction metadata?
Abundnce10 7y ago
How does Capital One give back 2% on all purchases? They must be monetizing purchase data as well, right?

by robjan 7y ago

wh1t3n01s3 7y ago

Are these datas for sale in Europe as well?

kuschku 7y ago
With VISA and MasterCard yes, but e.g. the German girocard network on its own doesn’t sell anything, and there it depends on your bank (and most banks don’t sell that data either). So if you have the choice between using a girocard or a credit/debit card to buy a product, the credit/debit card is significantly more likely to sell all your data.

dd36 7y ago

It’s crazy that they do this yet still charge nearly 3%.

dmayle 7y ago
They don't charge 3%, they charge about a tenth of a percent (0.11%). What you think of as fees is actually a basket of charges going to different parties. almost 2% goes to your (the purchaser) credit card company to cover the risk of you not paying them, about a percent goes to the store's bank to cover the case when they have to give the money back (either because it was a fraudulent online transaction, or the store cheated the customer and the customer went to their card issuer, etc.) and that tiny little bit that's left goes to Visa/MasterCard. Credit transaction fees actually make lots of sense and are grounded in the actual cost of the financial product. As a merchant, you can choose to accept only debit cards to avoid the cost
- JediWing 7y ago
  I get that this is how it works in the real world, but the argument that transaction fees are necessary for the credit company to cover the risk of the cardholder not paying is a bit feeble, because to my non-banker mind: that's what the interest rates are for. If someone is risky, simply don't approve their application, or raise their rate. Am I missing something?
  - philwelch 7y ago
    The 2% that goes back to the credit card company is what ends up paying for all the rewards points and cash back discounts—which work as mechanisms for you to get that money back so long as you actually pay your credit card bills.
- philwelch 7y ago
  And if you’re a savvy customer you get “cash back rewards” from your credit card, meaning some of the fees just end up coming back to you.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    A "savvy" customer has a card that doesn't make them perform a dog and pony show like you describe. A savvy customer's card charges the lowest reasonable rate in order to provide the service. Giving someone money and then feeling all giddy when you get a "reward" later means you've been gamed.
    - brndn 7y ago
      > feeling all giddy when you get a "reward" later means you've been gamed. It doesn't really feel that way as you're flying to Hawaii for free.
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        It doesn't really feel that way as you're flying to Hawaii for free. There is no free lunch.

jannes 7y ago

Anyone who wants to do this: Make sure that you also opt out your virtual card numbers (such as Apple Pay or Android Pay). Also, the opt-out of each number is only honored for FIVE years after which you need to opt-out again.

tprynn 7y ago
How can I opt out a virtual card number through Apple Pay? It doesn't seem that you can get the full "Device Account Number".
- reaperducer 7y ago
  I'm not sure that the "Device Account Number" matters. As I recall from the presentation, that number changes with each purchase. And Goldman has promised (ha!) not to sell your information for marketing purposes. But it's still worth opting-out of your Apple Card's virtual number. The number is in the wallet app, ... > Card Information
- jannes 7y ago
  I don't see the number exposed in Apple's UI, but I can definitely see it on my bank's website. It's possible that this is an implementation detail and some banks do it without a unique card number...

52-6F-62 7y ago

Your Mastercard URL got truncated somehow. It's a pretty easy search, though. Just the same, thanks for linking because I had no idea this was even an option: https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/privacy/data-analytics-opt-out.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/...

b42 7y ago
> To opt-out from our anonymization of your personal information to perform data analyses, please provide your Mastercard or Maestro payment card number below. This sounds like they are going to continue using my purchase data but without anonymization? Not a native speaker so perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the sentence.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  You're right. I don't think that's the intention, but that is certainly what the language implies. It's rather vaguely worded.
- l33tman 7y ago
  I think they tried to formulate it so it will sound less damning for them, like they want to make it explicit that what they performed their data analysis on is your anonymized personal information.

TuringNYC 7y ago

Do they have access to purchase line items or only the overall transaction metadata?

Abundnce10 7y ago

How does Capital One give back 2% on all purchases? They must be monetizing purchase data as well, right?