5 ms·

That would actually be illegal in a lot of places. Not sure how it would be in the USA but in most countries in Europe that wouldn't fly. They would be allowed

That would actually be illegal in a lot of places. Not sure how it would be in the USA but in most countries in Europe that wouldn't fly. They would be allowed to ask questions about your medical history, but medical records themselves are an absolute no go.

MandieD 7y ago
For long-term disability insurance in Germany, they can ask for permission to get information from your doctors for conditions you've revealed during the application process, and deny coverage if you do not give them permission. Omitting said conditions would be grounds for non-payment of benefits if what made you unable to work is in any way related to a condition they asked you about and you didn't reveal.
kop316 7y ago
Playing devil's advocate, why would I as an insurance company want to insure you if I don't have access to your medical records to verify preexisting conditions? I say that because then a person could have a preexisting condition, sign up for insurance, then go on long term disability due to the preexisting condition.
- bb88 7y ago
  NAL, but isn't that insurance fraud?
  - kop316 7y ago
    It definitely is, but I imagine that doesn't stop dishonest people.
- ken 7y ago
  Just because a company has a financial interest in learning a piece of information doesn't make it legal to acquire that information in any possible way. Pasting a signature onto a different document sounds like a clear cut case of fraud.
  - kop316 7y ago
    I'm not disagreeing that the method is shady. I'm saying if I'm the insurance company, why would I offer disability insurance if I can't verify the existence or absence of a preexisting? condition
    - whatisthiseven 7y ago
      The answer is the insurance company wouldn't. Easy. Why are you asking, though? Companies shouldn't commit fraud just because they want something.
      - kop316 7y ago
        I'm asking because I'm only hearing one side of the story. I have had to E-sign documents before and they always say the documents are available to reading, to which I always ask for it. I've never had an issue with that, especially with insurance companies. Furthermore, the insurance the person is asking for is disability insurance. Common sense dictates that they will ask for medical records, and therefore need a HIPAA disclosure document. If what the poster alleges it true, I agree wholeheartly that it should have been more clear in signing up for it, but it seems odd that the poster didn't think that state farm would ask for medical release forms for disability insurance. TL;DR, I think there's more to the story than what is alleged here.
        whatisthiseven 7y ago
        But why not state that rather than question begging? To everyone else, it seemed you were hammering away at some important point but without any context. Honestly, though, so many ads for insurance say you don't need a doctor visit, or health checkup, or whatever. I could easily see customers getting confused thinking they wouldn't need to give over health documents because the ads are deliberately misleading. Just because a business's practice is obvious to itself and those in the know, doesn't mean customers can get fleeced because "they should have known better". Caveat Emptor is kind of bullshit with such high information asymmetry.
- matz1 7y ago
  If you are insurance company you should want it. If you are customer you shouldn't want it. Every party can have different interest and should fight for their own interest.
  - kop316 7y ago
    If I'm an insurance company, I wouldn't provide coverage without it.
    - mijoharas 7y ago
      If I'm an insurance company, it would be best for my bottom line to not pay anyone that got sick and immediately terminate their "insurance". Literally the only thing that is stopping insurance companies from doing that is a contract, so if an insurance company is forging consent for a contract, that should be somewhat worrying. The insurance company is well within their right to not provide coverage without that consent. They are not within their right to forge that consent, which is the issue here.
prepend 7y ago
In the US it is allowed in every state. It requires patient consent to disclose the information. So I can refuse to share that information and then every long term insurance company will refuse to issue coverage. It’s not allowed for insurance companies to pull information without consent.
donalhunt 7y ago
GDPR (that thing that happened in Europe) was highly focused on consent and the use of your data. IANAL but it's highly likely that you could claim you had not provided consent for the actions taken by State Farm in this case (though I wouldn't be surprised if their small print allowed such things). Of course, just because they have attached your signature to an unseen document will likely still require a legal case to affirm that it was illegal or unethical (probably little to no case law in this area).
marcinzm 7y ago
This information is required for them to evaluate your risk and give you a price for insurance which is their core business. As a result, as I understand it, under GDPR you can refuse but they can also refuse to give you insurance as a result.
okusername 7y ago
For private insurance in Europe you have to sign disclosure documents for all your doctors and medical history, at least in all 5 countries I have insight in. It's perfectly legal and standard.

MandieD 7y ago

For long-term disability insurance in Germany, they can ask for permission to get information from your doctors for conditions you've revealed during the application process, and deny coverage if you do not give them permission. Omitting said conditions would be grounds for non-payment of benefits if what made you unable to work is in any way related to a condition they asked you about and you didn't reveal.

kop316 7y ago

Playing devil's advocate, why would I as an insurance company want to insure you if I don't have access to your medical records to verify preexisting conditions? I say that because then a person could have a preexisting condition, sign up for insurance, then go on long term disability due to the preexisting condition.

bb88 7y ago
NAL, but isn't that insurance fraud?
- kop316 7y ago
  It definitely is, but I imagine that doesn't stop dishonest people.
ken 7y ago
Just because a company has a financial interest in learning a piece of information doesn't make it legal to acquire that information in any possible way. Pasting a signature onto a different document sounds like a clear cut case of fraud.
- kop316 7y ago
  I'm not disagreeing that the method is shady. I'm saying if I'm the insurance company, why would I offer disability insurance if I can't verify the existence or absence of a preexisting? condition
  - whatisthiseven 7y ago
    The answer is the insurance company wouldn't. Easy. Why are you asking, though? Companies shouldn't commit fraud just because they want something.
    - kop316 7y ago
      I'm asking because I'm only hearing one side of the story. I have had to E-sign documents before and they always say the documents are available to reading, to which I always ask for it. I've never had an issue with that, especially with insurance companies. Furthermore, the insurance the person is asking for is disability insurance. Common sense dictates that they will ask for medical records, and therefore need a HIPAA disclosure document. If what the poster alleges it true, I agree wholeheartly that it should have been more clear in signing up for it, but it seems odd that the poster didn't think that state farm would ask for medical release forms for disability insurance. TL;DR, I think there's more to the story than what is alleged here.
      - whatisthiseven 7y ago
        But why not state that rather than question begging? To everyone else, it seemed you were hammering away at some important point but without any context. Honestly, though, so many ads for insurance say you don't need a doctor visit, or health checkup, or whatever. I could easily see customers getting confused thinking they wouldn't need to give over health documents because the ads are deliberately misleading. Just because a business's practice is obvious to itself and those in the know, doesn't mean customers can get fleeced because "they should have known better". Caveat Emptor is kind of bullshit with such high information asymmetry.
matz1 7y ago
If you are insurance company you should want it. If you are customer you shouldn't want it. Every party can have different interest and should fight for their own interest.
- kop316 7y ago
  If I'm an insurance company, I wouldn't provide coverage without it.
  - mijoharas 7y ago
    If I'm an insurance company, it would be best for my bottom line to not pay anyone that got sick and immediately terminate their "insurance". Literally the only thing that is stopping insurance companies from doing that is a contract, so if an insurance company is forging consent for a contract, that should be somewhat worrying. The insurance company is well within their right to not provide coverage without that consent. They are not within their right to forge that consent, which is the issue here.

prepend 7y ago

In the US it is allowed in every state. It requires patient consent to disclose the information. So I can refuse to share that information and then every long term insurance company will refuse to issue coverage. It’s not allowed for insurance companies to pull information without consent.

donalhunt 7y ago

GDPR (that thing that happened in Europe) was highly focused on consent and the use of your data. IANAL but it's highly likely that you could claim you had not provided consent for the actions taken by State Farm in this case (though I wouldn't be surprised if their small print allowed such things). Of course, just because they have attached your signature to an unseen document will likely still require a legal case to affirm that it was illegal or unethical (probably little to no case law in this area).

marcinzm 7y ago

This information is required for them to evaluate your risk and give you a price for insurance which is their core business. As a result, as I understand it, under GDPR you can refuse but they can also refuse to give you insurance as a result.

okusername 7y ago

For private insurance in Europe you have to sign disclosure documents for all your doctors and medical history, at least in all 5 countries I have insight in. It's perfectly legal and standard.