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I'm wondering about how common this knowledge nowadays? What is the chance that if you take average Joe and put him into forest without any specific tools, what

I'm wondering about how common this knowledge nowadays? What is the chance that if you take average Joe and put him into forest without any specific tools, what is the chance that he will be able to start fire? That's what feels inherently wrong to me about our knowledge system is our common knowledge is so superficial and we're constantly loosing touch with very basics about nature of things.

virgilp 7y ago
It's inherent to progress that the average Joe - or even the most outstanding Joe - can't know much of the global knowledge (otherwise, global knowledge would be very little indeed). I'm sure lots of people have some ideas how one could make a fire in theory (creating sparks or rubbing wood against wood or using a lens in bright sunlight or whatever). Whether a lot of people could actually put that knowledge to practical use is a different issue... but then again, it's not something inherently wrong. Just shows that average Joe doesn't need to start fire without tools, because tools are plenty nowadays. In our society it's more useful for the average Joe to be skilled at reading than at starting fires. That's not a bad thing.
ada1981 7y ago
A good game show would be to Take a dozen people who don’t know how to make fire and offer them $1MM if they can figure it out, allow them as long as needed.
kstenerud 7y ago
There are tons of things that the average person doesn't know in this age of specialization: * How to build a sturdy shelter * How to hunt * How to trap * How to forage without poisoning yourself * How to plow a field * How to build a plow * How to sharpen a knife * How to forge a knife * How to grow crops (planting seasons, pests, enclosures, blight, etc)
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Shoot, it doesn't have to be neolithic. How many people know how to do stuff like change their oil or brakepads without watching YouTube? How many HN readers need to search for specific commands for Makefiles -- I still do sometimes -- or how to use an obscure part part of an API?
onreact 7y ago
Yeah. You need actual survival training to be able to make fire. Good reminder. I wanted to learn it myself. Without matches I'm lost in the woods.
feintruled 7y ago
I think people generally 'know' how (rub sticks together, focus sunlight), but would fail in practice. The TV survivalist Ed Stafford is a wizard at making fire though even he occasionally fails, or it takes literally hours. It's not as easy as it looks, that's for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-nRvEVkGOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-nRvEVkGOc
bregma 7y ago
We make sure everyone in our Scout Troop has the knowledge to find or build shelter, start and maintain a fire, and have basic wilderness survival skills in all seasons. You can relax when the zombie apocalypse comes: just look for the geeky kids wearing a necker and woggle to lead you to salvation. Perhaps the Neanderthal had a similar organization? There's a reason why they survived longer than modern Sapiens have been around.
Psyladine 7y ago
No one alive can make a pencil, nevermind the fabrication of technologies we are utterly dependent on (the computer mouse, for instance). We've externalized these memories to make for a more sustainable society, because if you could bootstrap civilization, well, what needs you cooperate with your neighbor?

virgilp 7y ago

It's inherent to progress that the average Joe - or even the most outstanding Joe - can't know much of the global knowledge (otherwise, global knowledge would be very little indeed). I'm sure lots of people have some ideas how one could make a fire in theory (creating sparks or rubbing wood against wood or using a lens in bright sunlight or whatever). Whether a lot of people could actually put that knowledge to practical use is a different issue... but then again, it's not something inherently wrong. Just shows that average Joe doesn't need to start fire without tools, because tools are plenty nowadays. In our society it's more useful for the average Joe to be skilled at reading than at starting fires. That's not a bad thing.

ada1981 7y ago

A good game show would be to Take a dozen people who don’t know how to make fire and offer them $1MM if they can figure it out, allow them as long as needed.

kstenerud 7y ago

There are tons of things that the average person doesn't know in this age of specialization: * How to build a sturdy shelter * How to hunt * How to trap * How to forage without poisoning yourself * How to plow a field * How to build a plow * How to sharpen a knife * How to forge a knife * How to grow crops (planting seasons, pests, enclosures, blight, etc)

blaser-waffle 7y ago
Shoot, it doesn't have to be neolithic. How many people know how to do stuff like change their oil or brakepads without watching YouTube? How many HN readers need to search for specific commands for Makefiles -- I still do sometimes -- or how to use an obscure part part of an API?

onreact 7y ago

Yeah. You need actual survival training to be able to make fire. Good reminder. I wanted to learn it myself. Without matches I'm lost in the woods.

feintruled 7y ago

I think people generally 'know' how (rub sticks together, focus sunlight), but would fail in practice. The TV survivalist Ed Stafford is a wizard at making fire though even he occasionally fails, or it takes literally hours. It's not as easy as it looks, that's for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-nRvEVkGOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-nRvEVkGOc

bregma 7y ago

We make sure everyone in our Scout Troop has the knowledge to find or build shelter, start and maintain a fire, and have basic wilderness survival skills in all seasons. You can relax when the zombie apocalypse comes: just look for the geeky kids wearing a necker and woggle to lead you to salvation. Perhaps the Neanderthal had a similar organization? There's a reason why they survived longer than modern Sapiens have been around.

Psyladine 7y ago

No one alive can make a pencil, nevermind the fabrication of technologies we are utterly dependent on (the computer mouse, for instance). We've externalized these memories to make for a more sustainable society, because if you could bootstrap civilization, well, what needs you cooperate with your neighbor?