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IDK, it's not that difficult, I've seen all kinds of outdoorsy organizations/events manage to teach preteen kids in less than an hour to start a fire with flint

IDK, it's not that difficult, I've seen all kinds of outdoorsy organizations/events manage to teach preteen kids in less than an hour to start a fire with flint&steel + items they themselves gather in the forest. It's more difficult if it's been raining or everything is under snow, but I've seen adults do that (with some guiding words, though, not discovering on their own) quite quickly even if they've never done this before. It takes some effort and patience (mostly in preparing a good environment for a spark to light something small and dry on fire), and you need to know what are good conditions for a fire to start (which may not be obvious if you've never had fire), and you need a desire to make a fire as opposed to fearing it; so there's some barrier to overcome in inventing/attempting the process, but once that's done and you see how others are using and maintaining fire (even if the 'magic' initial process is obscured) then the technique would spread out like literal fire.

hisnameismanuel 7y ago
Steel is made using fire, and to use flint, you must be aware of its existence, its fire-marking properties, and where to find it.
fred_is_fred 7y ago
Where pray tell would the Neanderthals get the steel from?
jazzyjackson 7y ago
(This is more a reply to your replies) It takes practice but steel & flint isn't necessary, here's a video of a friend of mine who does what you're saying, teach kids survival skills. She uses particular kinds of wood you would need to learn to recognize but of course people have been doing it for a million years Warning: very enthusiastic audience; having been off the grid for a couple weeks, seeing a fire started by hand was big entertainment https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI
WalterBright 7y ago
Knowing that fire is possible to make from sparks is the biggest factor.
asdff 7y ago
Go watch a youtube video then try to go make a primitive fire. Collecting the right fire starting material is not always a possibility, let alone the flint. If it rained the day before you might not be able to make a fire even with the right starting tools. If it's cold or windy it might not happen either. Then if you do manage to get a fire, you have to have enough resources around to fuel it and get some coals for your giant sloth sirloin. If you camp in an area over time, eventually you will exhaust all the available firewood. Plus, every time you light a fire you risk other groups of people and predators poking around for that giant sloth sirloin of yours. If I've been getting by ok eating sloth sushi fresh off the kill for millions of years, why even risk it? Homo sapiens probably didn't have the gut microbiota to manage. Food poisoning could be a death sentence back then.
- sgt101 7y ago
  Cooking liberates energy from indigestible food - like meat. Human guts are half the length of dog guts, we have real trouble with living off raw meat. Also predators are sacred of fire. Other groups are likely known to you and interaction is governed in complex ways - eat my meat, give me help. In the spring... In terms of fire making, like all other survival skills it's about prep. I have pockets full of dry tinder, straw and splinters. They would have too, and caches of dry wood. One explaination here might simply be that these sites became untenable in the winter and were used as summer hunting camps. Short summer night fires would leave a fraction of the evidence of a constantly stoked winter hearth.
- PeterisP 7y ago
  Why should I watch a youtube video? I've done that in practice, and as I said above, I've personally seen multiple preteen kids successfully taught to do what you describe on the first day they tried it, and I've seen adults do that (with guidance/advice) not "If it rained the day before" but when it's been raining for a week and is still raining, again, having not done things like that ever in their life. Yes, it takes time and effort to collect the right fire starting material in wet conditions - you might need a couple hours and a longer walk, but that's what hunter-gatherers do much of their day anyway. And yes, it takes some "wilderness lore" specific to your local environment to recognize what's suitable and what's not, what's available and in what locations. That can be transferred reasonably quickly (i.e. the very basics in an hour or so) by showing stuff on-site but not easily over a ten minute youtube video that's likely taken far away in a different environment; but again, getting to know the local flora and fauna is a big part of young hunter-gatherer 'education' no matter if they use fire or not.
sgt 7y ago
I've seen people struggling to get a fire going even with firelighters and matches.
hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
We teach kids arithmetic and geometry, but apparently only Sumerians figured it out. The fact kids can learn with guidance shouldn’t be a proxy to how trivial it was to develop this knowledge in the first place.

hisnameismanuel 7y ago

Steel is made using fire, and to use flint, you must be aware of its existence, its fire-marking properties, and where to find it.

fred_is_fred 7y ago

Where pray tell would the Neanderthals get the steel from?

jazzyjackson 7y ago

(This is more a reply to your replies) It takes practice but steel & flint isn't necessary, here's a video of a friend of mine who does what you're saying, teach kids survival skills. She uses particular kinds of wood you would need to learn to recognize but of course people have been doing it for a million years Warning: very enthusiastic audience; having been off the grid for a couple weeks, seeing a fire started by hand was big entertainment https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI

WalterBright 7y ago

Knowing that fire is possible to make from sparks is the biggest factor.

asdff 7y ago

Go watch a youtube video then try to go make a primitive fire. Collecting the right fire starting material is not always a possibility, let alone the flint. If it rained the day before you might not be able to make a fire even with the right starting tools. If it's cold or windy it might not happen either. Then if you do manage to get a fire, you have to have enough resources around to fuel it and get some coals for your giant sloth sirloin. If you camp in an area over time, eventually you will exhaust all the available firewood. Plus, every time you light a fire you risk other groups of people and predators poking around for that giant sloth sirloin of yours. If I've been getting by ok eating sloth sushi fresh off the kill for millions of years, why even risk it? Homo sapiens probably didn't have the gut microbiota to manage. Food poisoning could be a death sentence back then.

sgt101 7y ago
Cooking liberates energy from indigestible food - like meat. Human guts are half the length of dog guts, we have real trouble with living off raw meat. Also predators are sacred of fire. Other groups are likely known to you and interaction is governed in complex ways - eat my meat, give me help. In the spring... In terms of fire making, like all other survival skills it's about prep. I have pockets full of dry tinder, straw and splinters. They would have too, and caches of dry wood. One explaination here might simply be that these sites became untenable in the winter and were used as summer hunting camps. Short summer night fires would leave a fraction of the evidence of a constantly stoked winter hearth.
PeterisP 7y ago
Why should I watch a youtube video? I've done that in practice, and as I said above, I've personally seen multiple preteen kids successfully taught to do what you describe on the first day they tried it, and I've seen adults do that (with guidance/advice) not "If it rained the day before" but when it's been raining for a week and is still raining, again, having not done things like that ever in their life. Yes, it takes time and effort to collect the right fire starting material in wet conditions - you might need a couple hours and a longer walk, but that's what hunter-gatherers do much of their day anyway. And yes, it takes some "wilderness lore" specific to your local environment to recognize what's suitable and what's not, what's available and in what locations. That can be transferred reasonably quickly (i.e. the very basics in an hour or so) by showing stuff on-site but not easily over a ten minute youtube video that's likely taken far away in a different environment; but again, getting to know the local flora and fauna is a big part of young hunter-gatherer 'education' no matter if they use fire or not.

sgt 7y ago

I've seen people struggling to get a fire going even with firelighters and matches.

hcarvalhoalves 7y ago

We teach kids arithmetic and geometry, but apparently only Sumerians figured it out. The fact kids can learn with guidance shouldn’t be a proxy to how trivial it was to develop this knowledge in the first place.