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Even when you know how to make fire (and the most efficient way to make fire) it's still super difficult. Try going outdoor and making a bonfire from sparks. I

Even when you know how to make fire (and the most efficient way to make fire) it's still super difficult. Try going outdoor and making a bonfire from sparks. I don't think it's far fetched to think of it as bleeding-edge technology that only a few (of a certain species) had control over at the time. It would be similar to us meeting humanoid aliens and watching them master nuclear fusion.

PeterisP 7y ago
IDK, it's not that difficult, I've seen all kinds of outdoorsy organizations/events manage to teach preteen kids in less than an hour to start a fire with flint&steel + items they themselves gather in the forest. It's more difficult if it's been raining or everything is under snow, but I've seen adults do that (with some guiding words, though, not discovering on their own) quite quickly even if they've never done this before. It takes some effort and patience (mostly in preparing a good environment for a spark to light something small and dry on fire), and you need to know what are good conditions for a fire to start (which may not be obvious if you've never had fire), and you need a desire to make a fire as opposed to fearing it; so there's some barrier to overcome in inventing/attempting the process, but once that's done and you see how others are using and maintaining fire (even if the 'magic' initial process is obscured) then the technique would spread out like literal fire.
- hisnameismanuel 7y ago
  Steel is made using fire, and to use flint, you must be aware of its existence, its fire-marking properties, and where to find it.
- fred_is_fred 7y ago
  Where pray tell would the Neanderthals get the steel from?
- jazzyjackson 7y ago
  (This is more a reply to your replies) It takes practice but steel & flint isn't necessary, here's a video of a friend of mine who does what you're saying, teach kids survival skills. She uses particular kinds of wood you would need to learn to recognize but of course people have been doing it for a million years Warning: very enthusiastic audience; having been off the grid for a couple weeks, seeing a fire started by hand was big entertainment https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Knowing that fire is possible to make from sparks is the biggest factor.
- asdff 7y ago
  Go watch a youtube video then try to go make a primitive fire. Collecting the right fire starting material is not always a possibility, let alone the flint. If it rained the day before you might not be able to make a fire even with the right starting tools. If it's cold or windy it might not happen either. Then if you do manage to get a fire, you have to have enough resources around to fuel it and get some coals for your giant sloth sirloin. If you camp in an area over time, eventually you will exhaust all the available firewood. Plus, every time you light a fire you risk other groups of people and predators poking around for that giant sloth sirloin of yours. If I've been getting by ok eating sloth sushi fresh off the kill for millions of years, why even risk it? Homo sapiens probably didn't have the gut microbiota to manage. Food poisoning could be a death sentence back then.
  - sgt101 7y ago
    Cooking liberates energy from indigestible food - like meat. Human guts are half the length of dog guts, we have real trouble with living off raw meat. Also predators are sacred of fire. Other groups are likely known to you and interaction is governed in complex ways - eat my meat, give me help. In the spring... In terms of fire making, like all other survival skills it's about prep. I have pockets full of dry tinder, straw and splinters. They would have too, and caches of dry wood. One explaination here might simply be that these sites became untenable in the winter and were used as summer hunting camps. Short summer night fires would leave a fraction of the evidence of a constantly stoked winter hearth.
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    Why should I watch a youtube video? I've done that in practice, and as I said above, I've personally seen multiple preteen kids successfully taught to do what you describe on the first day they tried it, and I've seen adults do that (with guidance/advice) not "If it rained the day before" but when it's been raining for a week and is still raining, again, having not done things like that ever in their life. Yes, it takes time and effort to collect the right fire starting material in wet conditions - you might need a couple hours and a longer walk, but that's what hunter-gatherers do much of their day anyway. And yes, it takes some "wilderness lore" specific to your local environment to recognize what's suitable and what's not, what's available and in what locations. That can be transferred reasonably quickly (i.e. the very basics in an hour or so) by showing stuff on-site but not easily over a ten minute youtube video that's likely taken far away in a different environment; but again, getting to know the local flora and fauna is a big part of young hunter-gatherer 'education' no matter if they use fire or not.
- sgt 7y ago
  I've seen people struggling to get a fire going even with firelighters and matches.
- hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
  We teach kids arithmetic and geometry, but apparently only Sumerians figured it out. The fact kids can learn with guidance shouldn’t be a proxy to how trivial it was to develop this knowledge in the first place.
forgotmypw 7y ago
Making fire outdoors is super difficult indeed, just like nuclear fusion. And just like nuclear fusion, if you really fucking need it, and you dedicate a lot of effort to it, it can be done.
- saberdancer 7y ago
  Levels of commitment and resources needed for fire and nuclear fusion are not really comparable. It's a really bad comparison.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Before you do anything, you need to be convinced it can be done, not just for a moment, but for long enough to learn or invent it. If you've never done something or seen it done, then it may be as remote as landing on the moon, even if there's one (simple) weird trick to it.
Mikeb85 7y ago
It's not that difficult. Hell, you can literally rub sticks together, even without a bow. There's plenty of vids on YouTube showing it.
- thdrdt 7y ago
  Painting portraits is not that difficult. Hell, you can literally smear paint on a canvas, even without brush. There's plenty of vids on YouTube showing it.
  - Mikeb85 7y ago
    For real though, we made fire by hitting rocks together and rubbing sticks together in elementary school. It's not that hard.
    - animal531 7y ago
      Making a wheel isn't hard. You cut a tree and core it, add an axle and cap times two and you have a cart. Tame a horse, and you have transportation. People saying its easy isn't taking into consideration that this is knowledge that took a really long time to figure out and effectively pass on. Knowing that rubbing two of the right sticks together for long enough will produce friction that can lead to enough heat for a fire isn't something that a person with no knowledge easily comes up with by themselves.
      - Mikeb85 7y ago
        No but I'm going to say that archaic humans, once they acquired that knowledge, probably passed it on religiously. It's literally the single most important discovery in the history of mankind.
    - lolc 7y ago
      Do you know which rocks you used and where to find them?
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
ada1981 7y ago
Making fire was the equivalent of quantum computing, or any other bleeding edge technology humans endeavor to do.

PeterisP 7y ago

IDK, it's not that difficult, I've seen all kinds of outdoorsy organizations/events manage to teach preteen kids in less than an hour to start a fire with flint&steel + items they themselves gather in the forest. It's more difficult if it's been raining or everything is under snow, but I've seen adults do that (with some guiding words, though, not discovering on their own) quite quickly even if they've never done this before. It takes some effort and patience (mostly in preparing a good environment for a spark to light something small and dry on fire), and you need to know what are good conditions for a fire to start (which may not be obvious if you've never had fire), and you need a desire to make a fire as opposed to fearing it; so there's some barrier to overcome in inventing/attempting the process, but once that's done and you see how others are using and maintaining fire (even if the 'magic' initial process is obscured) then the technique would spread out like literal fire.

hisnameismanuel 7y ago
Steel is made using fire, and to use flint, you must be aware of its existence, its fire-marking properties, and where to find it.
fred_is_fred 7y ago
Where pray tell would the Neanderthals get the steel from?
jazzyjackson 7y ago
(This is more a reply to your replies) It takes practice but steel & flint isn't necessary, here's a video of a friend of mine who does what you're saying, teach kids survival skills. She uses particular kinds of wood you would need to learn to recognize but of course people have been doing it for a million years Warning: very enthusiastic audience; having been off the grid for a couple weeks, seeing a fire started by hand was big entertainment https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI https://youtu.be/d_HGO31E0sI
WalterBright 7y ago
Knowing that fire is possible to make from sparks is the biggest factor.
asdff 7y ago
Go watch a youtube video then try to go make a primitive fire. Collecting the right fire starting material is not always a possibility, let alone the flint. If it rained the day before you might not be able to make a fire even with the right starting tools. If it's cold or windy it might not happen either. Then if you do manage to get a fire, you have to have enough resources around to fuel it and get some coals for your giant sloth sirloin. If you camp in an area over time, eventually you will exhaust all the available firewood. Plus, every time you light a fire you risk other groups of people and predators poking around for that giant sloth sirloin of yours. If I've been getting by ok eating sloth sushi fresh off the kill for millions of years, why even risk it? Homo sapiens probably didn't have the gut microbiota to manage. Food poisoning could be a death sentence back then.
- sgt101 7y ago
  Cooking liberates energy from indigestible food - like meat. Human guts are half the length of dog guts, we have real trouble with living off raw meat. Also predators are sacred of fire. Other groups are likely known to you and interaction is governed in complex ways - eat my meat, give me help. In the spring... In terms of fire making, like all other survival skills it's about prep. I have pockets full of dry tinder, straw and splinters. They would have too, and caches of dry wood. One explaination here might simply be that these sites became untenable in the winter and were used as summer hunting camps. Short summer night fires would leave a fraction of the evidence of a constantly stoked winter hearth.
- PeterisP 7y ago
  Why should I watch a youtube video? I've done that in practice, and as I said above, I've personally seen multiple preteen kids successfully taught to do what you describe on the first day they tried it, and I've seen adults do that (with guidance/advice) not "If it rained the day before" but when it's been raining for a week and is still raining, again, having not done things like that ever in their life. Yes, it takes time and effort to collect the right fire starting material in wet conditions - you might need a couple hours and a longer walk, but that's what hunter-gatherers do much of their day anyway. And yes, it takes some "wilderness lore" specific to your local environment to recognize what's suitable and what's not, what's available and in what locations. That can be transferred reasonably quickly (i.e. the very basics in an hour or so) by showing stuff on-site but not easily over a ten minute youtube video that's likely taken far away in a different environment; but again, getting to know the local flora and fauna is a big part of young hunter-gatherer 'education' no matter if they use fire or not.
sgt 7y ago
I've seen people struggling to get a fire going even with firelighters and matches.
hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
We teach kids arithmetic and geometry, but apparently only Sumerians figured it out. The fact kids can learn with guidance shouldn’t be a proxy to how trivial it was to develop this knowledge in the first place.

forgotmypw 7y ago

Making fire outdoors is super difficult indeed, just like nuclear fusion. And just like nuclear fusion, if you really fucking need it, and you dedicate a lot of effort to it, it can be done.

saberdancer 7y ago
Levels of commitment and resources needed for fire and nuclear fusion are not really comparable. It's a really bad comparison.
perl4ever 7y ago
Before you do anything, you need to be convinced it can be done, not just for a moment, but for long enough to learn or invent it. If you've never done something or seen it done, then it may be as remote as landing on the moon, even if there's one (simple) weird trick to it.

Mikeb85 7y ago

It's not that difficult. Hell, you can literally rub sticks together, even without a bow. There's plenty of vids on YouTube showing it.

thdrdt 7y ago
Painting portraits is not that difficult. Hell, you can literally smear paint on a canvas, even without brush. There's plenty of vids on YouTube showing it.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  For real though, we made fire by hitting rocks together and rubbing sticks together in elementary school. It's not that hard.
  - animal531 7y ago
    Making a wheel isn't hard. You cut a tree and core it, add an axle and cap times two and you have a cart. Tame a horse, and you have transportation. People saying its easy isn't taking into consideration that this is knowledge that took a really long time to figure out and effectively pass on. Knowing that rubbing two of the right sticks together for long enough will produce friction that can lead to enough heat for a fire isn't something that a person with no knowledge easily comes up with by themselves.
    - Mikeb85 7y ago
      No but I'm going to say that archaic humans, once they acquired that knowledge, probably passed it on religiously. It's literally the single most important discovery in the history of mankind.
  - lolc 7y ago
    Do you know which rocks you used and where to find them?
P_I_Staker 7y ago

ada1981 7y ago

Making fire was the equivalent of quantum computing, or any other bleeding edge technology humans endeavor to do.