6 ms·

“In an affidavit unsealed Tuesday, FBI Special Agent Robert Plumb said Lieber, who led a Harvard research group focusing on nanoscience, had established a resea

“In an affidavit unsealed Tuesday, FBI Special Agent Robert Plumb said Lieber, who led a Harvard research group focusing on nanoscience, had established a research lab at the Wuhan university — apparently unbeknownst to Harvard.” This is pretty egregious, and it baffles me that he thought it would go undetected (or that his home institution wouldn’t object.)

Aperocky 7y ago
He's wrong to not report conflict of interest on national defense funding, but how is establishing a lab elsewhere alone egregious? Private research institutes, like corporations, don't own people who work for them.
- droithomme 7y ago
  > "These grants require the disclosure of significant foreign financial conflicts of interest, including financial support from foreign governments or foreign entities," the U.S. Attorney's Office in Massachusetts said in a statement announcing the charges against Lieber.
  - Aperocky 7y ago
    Did you read my comment? My parent comment did not mention the conflict of interest while I did.
- knzhou 7y ago
  I completely agree with you: collaboration is no crime in science. Obviously, we will both be downvoted to invisibility, because this site's users are fervent nationalists, not scientists.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - datashow 7y ago
    You are a scientist? Maybe you never worked in a university as a full time employee? Faculty are required to report outside jobs, see: https://provost.harvard.edu/statement-outside-activities-holders-academic-appointments https://provost.harvard.edu/statement-outside-activities-hol... Do you know when you accept big grant you also must follow similar rules? Yes, you can collaborate in science, but you do not live in a vacuum, scientists also need to follow the rules of a society.
    - matz1 7y ago
      The rules itself is egrigeous, that's why there is an incentive for lying in the first place. If the goal is for science, there shouldn't be restriction on working with other country in order to accept grant.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Then by all means, collaborate. But don't lie to get grant money.
  - hluska 7y ago
    Outright lying != collaboration.
- sailfast 7y ago
  It’s not a conflict of interest, it’s a lie on a background check that likely would have lost him the DoD grants. I don’t think anyone is saying “don’t establish a lab” but if someone asks you whether you’re being paid by foreign interests you can’t just say “I don’t know who the organization is that had been paying me for years.” This has nothing to do with conflict of interest, outside of the conflicts between DoD and whether clearances / grants are released to those that are being paid by other nation states.
  - Aperocky 7y ago
    You're totally right. God knows why he wanted to lie, perhaps the DoD grants are really important for the lab. Giving how sensitive things are with China, I think it's fair to say that it would have had a large impact on those grants. I do know some professor with 40+ graduates/post-graduates. It feels like academia have became mini feudal fiefdoms but instead of farming land it farm grants, with papers.
- Canada 7y ago
  The government alleges in the indictment that he signed a contract to setup a joint research lab between Harvard and the Chinese university without informing Harvard at all let alone obtaining its permission to enter the institution into such an agreement. It also alleges that he took all payments to a bank account in China or in cash when he traveled to China and took action to conceal the deal when Harvard and the government started asking questions about it. If the allegations are true then he probably began by overstepping his authority at Harvard for his personal financial gain. He may have been reluctant to disclose the relationship as required for the US grants because doing so would have simultaneously disclosed to Harvard his egregious violation its policy, possibly resulting in termination of his employment. Maybe he was hiding the money from the IRS as well, giving him further motive to conceal and deny. Had he entered into the agreement strictly personally then he almost certainly would have told Harvard which would have disclosed it to the government. Maybe the Chinese sponsors wouldn't have offered as much money for that. Alternatively, he could have asked Harvard to enter into the agreement through the proper channels, but then in that case surely the university would be getting the money and not the professor personally.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  Importantly, he was working on multiple US DoD grants at the same time.

Aperocky 7y ago

He's wrong to not report conflict of interest on national defense funding, but how is establishing a lab elsewhere alone egregious? Private research institutes, like corporations, don't own people who work for them.

droithomme 7y ago
> "These grants require the disclosure of significant foreign financial conflicts of interest, including financial support from foreign governments or foreign entities," the U.S. Attorney's Office in Massachusetts said in a statement announcing the charges against Lieber.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  Did you read my comment? My parent comment did not mention the conflict of interest while I did.
knzhou 7y ago
I completely agree with you: collaboration is no crime in science. Obviously, we will both be downvoted to invisibility, because this site's users are fervent nationalists, not scientists.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- datashow 7y ago
  You are a scientist? Maybe you never worked in a university as a full time employee? Faculty are required to report outside jobs, see: https://provost.harvard.edu/statement-outside-activities-holders-academic-appointments https://provost.harvard.edu/statement-outside-activities-hol... Do you know when you accept big grant you also must follow similar rules? Yes, you can collaborate in science, but you do not live in a vacuum, scientists also need to follow the rules of a society.
  - matz1 7y ago
    The rules itself is egrigeous, that's why there is an incentive for lying in the first place. If the goal is for science, there shouldn't be restriction on working with other country in order to accept grant.
- kube-system 7y ago
  Then by all means, collaborate. But don't lie to get grant money.
- hluska 7y ago
  Outright lying != collaboration.
sailfast 7y ago
It’s not a conflict of interest, it’s a lie on a background check that likely would have lost him the DoD grants. I don’t think anyone is saying “don’t establish a lab” but if someone asks you whether you’re being paid by foreign interests you can’t just say “I don’t know who the organization is that had been paying me for years.” This has nothing to do with conflict of interest, outside of the conflicts between DoD and whether clearances / grants are released to those that are being paid by other nation states.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  You're totally right. God knows why he wanted to lie, perhaps the DoD grants are really important for the lab. Giving how sensitive things are with China, I think it's fair to say that it would have had a large impact on those grants. I do know some professor with 40+ graduates/post-graduates. It feels like academia have became mini feudal fiefdoms but instead of farming land it farm grants, with papers.
Canada 7y ago
The government alleges in the indictment that he signed a contract to setup a joint research lab between Harvard and the Chinese university without informing Harvard at all let alone obtaining its permission to enter the institution into such an agreement. It also alleges that he took all payments to a bank account in China or in cash when he traveled to China and took action to conceal the deal when Harvard and the government started asking questions about it. If the allegations are true then he probably began by overstepping his authority at Harvard for his personal financial gain. He may have been reluctant to disclose the relationship as required for the US grants because doing so would have simultaneously disclosed to Harvard his egregious violation its policy, possibly resulting in termination of his employment. Maybe he was hiding the money from the IRS as well, giving him further motive to conceal and deny. Had he entered into the agreement strictly personally then he almost certainly would have told Harvard which would have disclosed it to the government. Maybe the Chinese sponsors wouldn't have offered as much money for that. Alternatively, he could have asked Harvard to enter into the agreement through the proper channels, but then in that case surely the university would be getting the money and not the professor personally.
koheripbal 7y ago
Importantly, he was working on multiple US DoD grants at the same time.