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Can we really not acknowledge that some people are dumb or ignorant and easily taken advantage of? It’s harsh but if you’re not willing to accept that, then you

Can we really not acknowledge that some people are dumb or ignorant and easily taken advantage of? It’s harsh but if you’re not willing to accept that, then you won’t be able to understand the world and make it better.

greglindahl 7y ago
You could try being less insulting? Dumb and ignorant are not nice things to call someone.
- marcoperaza 7y ago
  Neither is whatever euphemism you come up with. That doesn’t make it less true. Of course you shouldn’t call someone dumb or slow or less clever or below average to their face or in most social contexts, and definitely never out of animus. But it’s true about a lot of people and we can’t understand the world if we don’t acknowledge that. There’s no virtue in sticking your head in the sand to avoid facts that aren’t warm and cuddly.
  - yesenadam 7y ago
    The GP was, and now I am, objecting to your speaking "brutal truth" and then acting like the brutality of it is a virtue. As if it's courageous to be mean to people. And then talking about being unable to understand the world, it being like sticking your head in the sand, without it! .. It's not 'euphemism' to speak respectfully about people. The point is less brutality, not less truth.
    - marcoperaza 7y ago
      I would never advocate for being mean. There’s no warm and fuzzy way to put it, that some people are taken advantage of because of their low intelligence. I was responding to someone who said that the suggestion was “insulting”.
      - tptacek 7y ago
        You simply could have said "easily taken advantage of", omitting the needless offensive words; you were not in a discussion where it was necessary to provide a root cause diagnosis for why people are easily taken advantage of, nor is your diagnosis especially useful, since the overlap between credulousness and low intelligence is significant but not perfect. More importantly, in that conversational circumstance, why double down on it? Wasn't your point that we should acknowledge fallibility and use it as a policy premise? Why get off track?
    - loco5niner 7y ago
      In my opinion, we could all use a little more "brutal truth" in our life. Yes, the words "dumb" and "ignorant" are harsh, but so is truth. Marcoperaza wouldn't use those words to insult them to their face, and neither would I, but it's important to be able to talk about things honestly.
    - celticmusic 7y ago
      > As if it's courageous to be mean to people. Was this person speaking directly to a victim? Was there some specific target of their statement that I somehow missed? Because what I read was someone making a general statement. Here's another mean, general statement. Consider that 100 IQ is by definition the average for the population. Then realize that implies a large percentage of people are dumber than that. Was I just mean to someone? What if someone has an IQ of 80? Was the company or team that gave them the news mean? Am I mean for pointing out that's low? My point here is this: You're so all in with these crusades that you misapplied it. If we cannot speak about this stuff, we cannot help others recognize it, and we will never improve the situation. No one here attacked anyone else. Let it be.
- loco5niner 7y ago
  It is, however, the truth. I consider myself somewhat smart, but i have done many dumb things. I also am quite ignorant about many more things than I am knowledgeable about.

greglindahl 7y ago

You could try being less insulting? Dumb and ignorant are not nice things to call someone.

marcoperaza 7y ago
Neither is whatever euphemism you come up with. That doesn’t make it less true. Of course you shouldn’t call someone dumb or slow or less clever or below average to their face or in most social contexts, and definitely never out of animus. But it’s true about a lot of people and we can’t understand the world if we don’t acknowledge that. There’s no virtue in sticking your head in the sand to avoid facts that aren’t warm and cuddly.
- yesenadam 7y ago
  The GP was, and now I am, objecting to your speaking "brutal truth" and then acting like the brutality of it is a virtue. As if it's courageous to be mean to people. And then talking about being unable to understand the world, it being like sticking your head in the sand, without it! .. It's not 'euphemism' to speak respectfully about people. The point is less brutality, not less truth.
  - marcoperaza 7y ago
    I would never advocate for being mean. There’s no warm and fuzzy way to put it, that some people are taken advantage of because of their low intelligence. I was responding to someone who said that the suggestion was “insulting”.
    - tptacek 7y ago
      You simply could have said "easily taken advantage of", omitting the needless offensive words; you were not in a discussion where it was necessary to provide a root cause diagnosis for why people are easily taken advantage of, nor is your diagnosis especially useful, since the overlap between credulousness and low intelligence is significant but not perfect. More importantly, in that conversational circumstance, why double down on it? Wasn't your point that we should acknowledge fallibility and use it as a policy premise? Why get off track?
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    In my opinion, we could all use a little more "brutal truth" in our life. Yes, the words "dumb" and "ignorant" are harsh, but so is truth. Marcoperaza wouldn't use those words to insult them to their face, and neither would I, but it's important to be able to talk about things honestly.
  - celticmusic 7y ago
    > As if it's courageous to be mean to people. Was this person speaking directly to a victim? Was there some specific target of their statement that I somehow missed? Because what I read was someone making a general statement. Here's another mean, general statement. Consider that 100 IQ is by definition the average for the population. Then realize that implies a large percentage of people are dumber than that. Was I just mean to someone? What if someone has an IQ of 80? Was the company or team that gave them the news mean? Am I mean for pointing out that's low? My point here is this: You're so all in with these crusades that you misapplied it. If we cannot speak about this stuff, we cannot help others recognize it, and we will never improve the situation. No one here attacked anyone else. Let it be.
loco5niner 7y ago
It is, however, the truth. I consider myself somewhat smart, but i have done many dumb things. I also am quite ignorant about many more things than I am knowledgeable about.