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Yeah, my life experiences are such that I've lived long enough to remember several times people thought the world was going to end, WW3 would happen, and a bunc

Yeah, my life experiences are such that I've lived long enough to remember several times people thought the world was going to end, WW3 would happen, and a bunch of doomsday predictions that should have but haven't happened. Or maybe it's the fact I'm Canadian and we generally push back against extremism, alarmism, most isms really. I've heard there's a hole in the ozone and we're all going to die from cancer and I've heard that New York will be underwater and all the glaciers will be gone by 2020. I've lived through 2 US presidents everyone has said are Hitler and somehow, despite the uproar being the loudest today, the world hasn't come to an end and things actually don't seem that bad. So yes, when I see headlines that are obviously click bait it hits this little part of my brain that feels compelled to say that maybe, just maybe things aren't all that bad.

scarygliders 7y ago
And your quite reasonable view is, as usual, being downvoted, despite there being nothing controversial in what you posted, as you posted your personal life experience. And no doubt this post too will suffer the same fate for coming to your defence. So be it.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Yeah, it seems nowadays either you're with Trump/Brexit/Jesus/KKK or Greta/ElizaBernieBidenOC/Stalin and anything in between can't be fathomed. Like I dunno, I like the environment (and have probably spent more time lost in the wild than 99% of this sub ever will) and I also like economic development. I also believe that some political goals maybe should be pursued carefully lest opinion shift too far the other direction and the masses wind up crucifying you... Global warming is tough because we could destroy our economy in order to not emit any CO2 and nothing would happen unless we get cooperation from everyone else because CO2 levels are cumulative. It's very much a prisoners dillema sort of game and I really don't think most 'environmentalists' really want to do what it takes.
  - happytoexplain 7y ago
    >either you're with Trump/Brexit/Jesus/KKK or Greta/ElizaBernieBidenOC/Stalin and anything in between can't be fathomed. Is that realistically why you think you were downvoted? That seems oversimplistic/self-pitying.
    - Mikeb85 7y ago
      I personally don't care, someone else commented on it though. And yes, pretty much all nuance has been eliminated from discussions on a lot of topics these days.
wcoenen 7y ago
> I've heard there's a hole in the ozone and we're all going to die from cancer The reason you don't hear that anymore is not because there was no problem, but because the problem has been fixed by the implementation of the Montreal protocol. The ozon layer has been gradually recovering ever since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol
flukus 7y ago
Just because we avoided some disasters (WW3) and acted globally to prevent others (ozone hole) doesn't mean they weren't real issues with potentially disastrous consequences. In fact we should be looking at how we avoided some of those outcomes and learn from them. The ozone hole is particularly illustrative because of it's similarity to today's problem with CO2. > Or maybe it's the fact I'm Canadian and we generally push back against extremism, alarmism, most isms really. How about other forms of alarmism, the reducing use of fossil fuels will destroy our way of life, collapse the economy, etc? I see a lot of people worried about "climate alarmism" but they never seem to be concerned about there own alarmsism. > and I've heard that New York will be underwater and all the glaciers will be gone by 2020 Citation please? I see this claim frequently yet either no citations are provided or they rely on the readers lack of comprehension, memory or both. The alarmisim is probably in your head. As for calling it "too acidic", that's fairly obviously more understandable for the lay reader than "not basic enough" would be.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Here's some failed predictions: https://www.rd.com/culture/predictions-that-didnt-come-true/ https://www.rd.com/culture/predictions-that-didnt-come-true/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/08/us/glaciers-national-park-2020-trnd/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/08/us/g...
  - flukus 7y ago
    Any credible sources? In the first link, that's not a quote from Jim Hansen, that's a quote from Bob Reiss said that Hansen said 12 years earlier. I don't know how credible Reiss is supposed to be but there's no context to address Hansen there. For number 2, yes they revised the timeline, the glaciers are still retreating. Does an extrapolation on a long running process even count as being alarmist?

scarygliders 7y ago

And your quite reasonable view is, as usual, being downvoted, despite there being nothing controversial in what you posted, as you posted your personal life experience. And no doubt this post too will suffer the same fate for coming to your defence. So be it.

Mikeb85 7y ago
Yeah, it seems nowadays either you're with Trump/Brexit/Jesus/KKK or Greta/ElizaBernieBidenOC/Stalin and anything in between can't be fathomed. Like I dunno, I like the environment (and have probably spent more time lost in the wild than 99% of this sub ever will) and I also like economic development. I also believe that some political goals maybe should be pursued carefully lest opinion shift too far the other direction and the masses wind up crucifying you... Global warming is tough because we could destroy our economy in order to not emit any CO2 and nothing would happen unless we get cooperation from everyone else because CO2 levels are cumulative. It's very much a prisoners dillema sort of game and I really don't think most 'environmentalists' really want to do what it takes.
- happytoexplain 7y ago
  >either you're with Trump/Brexit/Jesus/KKK or Greta/ElizaBernieBidenOC/Stalin and anything in between can't be fathomed. Is that realistically why you think you were downvoted? That seems oversimplistic/self-pitying.
  - Mikeb85 7y ago
    I personally don't care, someone else commented on it though. And yes, pretty much all nuance has been eliminated from discussions on a lot of topics these days.

wcoenen 7y ago

> I've heard there's a hole in the ozone and we're all going to die from cancer The reason you don't hear that anymore is not because there was no problem, but because the problem has been fixed by the implementation of the Montreal protocol. The ozon layer has been gradually recovering ever since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Protocol

flukus 7y ago

Just because we avoided some disasters (WW3) and acted globally to prevent others (ozone hole) doesn't mean they weren't real issues with potentially disastrous consequences. In fact we should be looking at how we avoided some of those outcomes and learn from them. The ozone hole is particularly illustrative because of it's similarity to today's problem with CO2. > Or maybe it's the fact I'm Canadian and we generally push back against extremism, alarmism, most isms really. How about other forms of alarmism, the reducing use of fossil fuels will destroy our way of life, collapse the economy, etc? I see a lot of people worried about "climate alarmism" but they never seem to be concerned about there own alarmsism. > and I've heard that New York will be underwater and all the glaciers will be gone by 2020 Citation please? I see this claim frequently yet either no citations are provided or they rely on the readers lack of comprehension, memory or both. The alarmisim is probably in your head. As for calling it "too acidic", that's fairly obviously more understandable for the lay reader than "not basic enough" would be.

Mikeb85 7y ago
Here's some failed predictions: https://www.rd.com/culture/predictions-that-didnt-come-true/ https://www.rd.com/culture/predictions-that-didnt-come-true/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/08/us/glaciers-national-park-2020-trnd/index.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/08/us/g...
- flukus 7y ago
  Any credible sources? In the first link, that's not a quote from Jim Hansen, that's a quote from Bob Reiss said that Hansen said 12 years earlier. I don't know how credible Reiss is supposed to be but there's no context to address Hansen there. For number 2, yes they revised the timeline, the glaciers are still retreating. Does an extrapolation on a long running process even count as being alarmist?