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A vegan diet could affect your intelligence

54 points by elorant 7y ago

Polylactic_acid 7y ago
This is a pretty well written article. Hopefully people read past the headline. The most important bit being "could" affect. Some limited tests have been done on kids which found some difference but its not clear if it has any effect on adults. It also sounds like a vegan diet with a few nutritional supplements could entirely solve the issue. At the very least we know that we can hugely reduce our meat consumption with positive outcomes.
- Dumblydorr 7y ago
  How is it well written? They make claims about massive swaths of the global population based on a single study from an African school giving kids snacks.
  - Polylactic_acid 7y ago
    The article didn't seem to assert them as fact and only suggested that from the limited research, this seems to be the data.
- cies 7y ago
  Seriously? My self and a few other in this comment section point out why we think the article is total rubbish. And that for a jounalist who claims to be "science". BBC sunk even lower in my estimation today. Here an article they publish 5 days earlier: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health...
SeanFerree 7y ago
Great article!
KitDuncan 7y ago
What a weak article and study. I am not familiar with BBCs content, but I would have expected it to be better quality.
- markstos 7y ago
  What was weak about the article and study?
  - gregcrv 7y ago
    "Others are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes, you’d have to eat about five cups’ worth (equivalent to roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical." Chickpeas, canned, 1 cup 1.1mg of vitamin B6 55% DV Source: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfessional/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfession... And let's not talk about their claim that omega3 cannot be found in plants or that vitamin D can only come from supplements...
    - 1024core 7y ago
      Yep, that was a total strawman argument. I read it, and wondered why potato was chosen? Just to make the point, I guess; but that speaks to the sensationalist urge plaguing the author. There was also no information about any conflicts of interest. I'd be interested in knowing if there were any?
    - Zod666 7y ago
      I don't know much about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but plant based omega 3's have a horrible conversion rate don't they?
      - ovx99 7y ago
        They have a lesser conversion rate, but what most paleo/anti-vegan arguments neglect to mention in terms of plant omega-3 sources is that if you simply eat more total ALA, the net omega-3 will be the same to your body. Seems obvious, but people never seem to acknowledge that. It's not such a lesser conversion rate that this isn't practical or possible. Not to mention there's studies showing alternative benefits of ALA despite having less conversion rate overall. Similarly with krill oil -- there's less EPA/DHA compared to fish oil per gram but it's utilized differently by the body and has shown variations in bioavailability when measured (krill vs fish oil is an ongoing topic of interest).
markstos 7y ago
I have more energy since shifting towards a vegan diet-- mid-day slumps are rare now and I have more energy after work in the evening as well. Work on complex coding and DevOps tasks continues as before.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Was your previous non-vegan diet actually good? As in high on fibrous veggies, moderate amount of complex carbs, low on sugar and high on high quality protein? When people switch to vegan they essentially rely more on home cooked meals and stay away from junk it doesn’t mean that a vegan diet is better than a non vegan diet of the same quality. If you switch from twinkies to lentil patties and cauliflower rice it’s no wonder that you feel better.
  - abfan1127 7y ago
    I came here to say this. When I switched from a typical American diet of crappy carbs, soda, and other sugar based crap to a, High Fat, High Protein diet, I got a ton of energy, slept better, etc. While I see a ton of value in my dietary choices, it was the lack of sugar that made life better.
    - somehnguy 7y ago
      I did the keto diet for the majority of last year to lose weight. It was extremely successful and I lost 75 pounds. I noticed the exact same thing you did in regards to energy levels and overall just feeling better. My energy levels did not fluctuate at all during the day, even post heavy meals. I also didn't seem to have any of those random days where you just feel like you're dragging along.
- Relys 7y ago
  Probably due to eating less simple carbs and sugars.
- radicalbyte 7y ago
  I had the same results from both a vegan diet and a whole foods diets. Both diets largely excluded processed food (I'd eat tofu, fermented sauces in both, and some high quality ham in the whole food diet). I think that the large ratio of vegetables and lack of simple sugars was the cause more so than the meat. I get a similar boost when following body-building diets, these include simple sugars around training time and highly processed whey isolate. I have always used them to drop weight too so you're running at a calorie deficit. On those diets I've felt fantastic except the day after the binge day (you need to have a surplus once every 7-10 days to avoid starving).
goldenkey 7y ago
Wild, sustainably caught fish is the diet to go for if you care about the environment and your own health. I'm not going to give flak to vegans, their self-sacrifice is indicative of real care for their fellow beings.
- unwaryquerier 7y ago
  *for those who can afford it. Also, sourcing sustainability isn't an exact science in most first world countries.
- ianai 7y ago
  I really doubt wild fish can be sustainably caught. We shouldn’t be fishing them at all, I’d claim.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    Small fry like common wild sardines found in cans are not a problem for sustainability. They're less toxic too, being so low on the food chain and having a short lifespan. Good source of omega-3s and other nutrients, since you eat the whole fish.
- yesenadam 7y ago
  >Wild, sustainably caught fish is the diet to go for if you care about the environment But not if you care about fish. I'm always gobsmacked hearing talk like this...from people that apparently have been taught to view animals as...just machines, tools for humans, as if they don't have a life of their own. Just atoms at the disposal of humans. "Stock." Somehow the limit of our "care" is killing them at a rate ("sustainably caught") that enables we can go on doing so. "Self-sacrifice"? Is it a self-sacrifice for you to not, say, own slaves or eat people? No. Those things seem wrong so you don't do them, or they doesn't even occur to you as options, although they used to be societal habits. Not eating animals seems like that to me.
  - goldenkey 7y ago
    Everything dies. As long as it is ethical and not torture, I don't see an issue with fishing. Veganism lowers the brainpower output of a human enough to make the overall output works integral substantially impacted. That brainpower lost could be used to alleviate animal suffering like AI models substituting animal testing, etc etc. I personally am using my brain power to create Roylent. It'll solve our food crisis without any plant or animal deaths. Contact me if you are a VC/Angel interested in funding the revolution in eco/carbon friendly, suffering free food.
ovx99 7y ago
From the article: "Other [nutrients] are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes, you’d have to eat about five cups’ worth (equivalent to roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical." And yet when you investigate plant sources of b6, Banana: Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.8mg (49% DV) Beef: Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.4mg (21% DV) Interesting! Very interesting! I wonder what percentage of readers of this article are going to investigate what this authoritative science writer says for themselves? After all, why not trust the expert with a graduate degree working for the BBC? So which is it, is the author unable to investigate in the most basic manner the actual B6 content in foods, when she apparently has a doctorate, or is this some sort of propagandist trash article with an agenda? Because I'm not sure what other options there are based on the way the quoted paragraph is written. Moreover, what are the implications for the BBC's editorial standards that something like this was greenlit?
- rusk 7y ago
  The BBC really needs to be listed as an unreliable source.
  - ianai 7y ago
    I get these same arguments from non-vegans all too often. I then have to have the same discussion that takes a nontrivial amount of time and effort. I’m also usually told I’m wrong or should still rethink my dietary choices. We don’t need to go down this road again. See the rest of the discussion for what they’re point out. It’s bunk.
    - rusk 7y ago
      I was just pointing out that the vast majority of BBC articles posted on HN are junk ... did you mean to reply to me? It used to be the case that BBC was a byword for reliability and impartial reporting but in my opinion it has really taken a nosedive in the last 15 years (my personal theory is the establishment gutted it after the 2003 invasion of Iraq because they were a little bit too impartial). People see a BBC article claiming something controversial and they’re like oh my god this changes everything because they’re still under the impression it still has any kind of journalistic heft but really it is little better than buzzfeed these days.
frandroid 7y ago
> Along with the children who received soup with added oil, they also did the best on a test of arithmetic ability. So huh, really, it was the extra calories, not the meat per se. > In the winter months, when the sun is weaker, omnivores living in the UK have nearly 40% more vitamin D3 in their blood than vegans. ...Because milk is artificially supplemented with D3! Funny that. > No one has looked into how this might be affecting their cognitive abilities yet So don't be a scaremonger? > As for Gandhi That renowned nutritionist!
- cies 7y ago
  It's a very "appeal to emotion" kind of article for a freelance journalist that claims to be "science".[1] See what the same BBC published just 5 days earlier.[2] 1: https://www.zariagorvett.com/ https://www.zariagorvett.com/ 2: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health...
Ididntdothis 7y ago
There is a wide variety of vegan diets. You could eat only potato chips and drink soda and be vegan. Saying “vegan diet” by itself is pretty meaningless.
- cies 7y ago
  In fact "vegan diet" is almost contradictory. One could argue it is short for "the diet part of the vegan lifestyle". Vegans try to behave in a way that does not harm of commodify animals as far as practicable. Besides the diet this includes attitudes to clothing materials (leather, wool), entertainment (horse back riding, bull fights, zoos, petstores), and much of animal testing. One cannot really just take the diet bit and still call it "vegan". Likewise food is technically not vegan, it is "suitable for vegans". The term that IS appropriate here is "plant based". "Plant based food" and the "plant based diet" are what the author actually, more accurately, wants to say I believe.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Plant based by itself doesn’t mean much either.
    - cies 7y ago
      What do you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet And a person "being vegan" clearly means something too. Just "vegan diet" and "vegan food" are, well, I'd call 'm short cuts. They're needlessly unspecific or even a little contradictory. Like saying "I eat vegetarian": I understand what one tries to say, but it is not entirely correct usage of language.
      - Ididntdothis 7y ago
        My point is that to make any connection between plant based diet and health you need to be more specific. You can eat balanced meals with fresh vegetables and good ingredients or you can eat pretzels or potato chips the whole day and drink soda. Both are plant based but the outcome will probably be different.
ianai 7y ago
This is incorrect. B12 is made from bacteria widespread in the “wild environment “, but almost completely washed it of the modern diet. The only reason non-vegans don’t typically have to worry about B12 is that cyanocobalamin or other B12s are added into common foods. There’s an argument that cyanocobalamin is bad for you though as your liver creates cyanide in processing it for use in your body. Here’s the quote from the article. “”” One of the most well-known challenges for vegans is getting enough vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products like eggs and meat. “””
- im3w1l 7y ago
  What you say may be true, but regardless of how it came to be, it's my understanding that b12 deficiency is much more common in vegans than meat eaters. So vegans do have to be careful in the short term. Maybe in the long term they should campaign for b12 enriching common vegan foods.
  - ianai 7y ago
    I’d rather choose my B12. Predominantly B12 fortified foods use cyanocobalamin because it’s cheap, but it’s not the best for your health. We have fully entered a market cycle where people routinely pay more for foods which have fewer ingredients than cheaper alternatives. There are reasons for it (extending shelf life or cheapness), but it is sort of odd to pay less for more “stuff”.
  - cies 7y ago
    We all take the supplement. > it's my understanding that b12 [deficiency] is much more common in vegans than [omnies] Nope. Just slightly more common. And I think by the rate that B12 awareness is growing in the vegan movement we will soon see that vegans in general (so without only counting the non B12 supplementing ones) have better test results. Also the reason B12 is in much of animal products (especially the non grass fed, bio-industrially "produced" animals), is because those animals get B12 supplements in their feed (to the benefit of the animal's health(!)). So indirectly the omnis often take the same supplement.
- jeffdavis 7y ago
amriksohata 7y ago
According to the game changers documentary, even meat like chicken has to have added vitamins like b12 which is the only reason meat eaters get that extra vitamin, so supplementing is for all
frandroid 7y ago
> As for Gandhi, he eventually abandoned his illicit relationship with meat, and went back to vegetarianism. That was a commitment he took for his mother when he went to study law in England. While today the UK is a hotbed of veg*nism, back then Gandhi had trouble eating well while being veg in London, and started seeking out other vegetarians. He eventually found a vegetarian society, and it is through that society that he became exposed to Henry David Thoreau and his Civil Disobedience. The rest, as they say, is world history.
cgh 7y ago
Great to see they mentioned creatine and carnosine. Creatine in particular is notable for its proven effectiveness as an athletic supplement but it has a host of other, lesser-known benefits[0]. It's only found in animals, although your body does produce baseline amounts from other amino acids. 0. https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/ https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/
theatraine 7y ago
Kombucha is a great vegan source of B12, one of the key nutrients mentioned in the article. The B12 in kombucha actually comes from the culture itself.
- frandroid 7y ago
  Neat!
jnaddef 7y ago
TL;DR There is no scientific study proving one way or the other and whether you are vegan or not if you do not care about the quality and diversity of what you eat it will probably affect your body and your brain.
Dumblydorr 7y ago
The only source study cited is of schoolchildren receiving a snack in a low income nation. This is bad scientific reporting, they way overstep their bounds, typical BBC article.
- cies 7y ago
  Check out this much larger (n=8000 instead of n=555) and more in depth study in a developed nation (UK). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ Teaser quote: In a large representative population study of more than 8000 British men and women, intelligence in childhood was associated with a vegetarian diet in mid-adulthood, and this was independent of educational attainment and social class.
cies 7y ago
Seriously BBC? The plant based diet (the diet component of being vegan) is found adequate by the WHO for all stages of life.[1] Now this article if full of picking some studies that have proven that in some case something was wrong with a some form of plant based diet, or less optimal than the form of omni diet the control was on. And this is true! There are unhealthy plant based diets, and there are quite healthy omni diets. And --thanks BBC for pointing it out once again-- us plant eaters should be careful of some nutrients we may lack (as should omnis) AND some forms food we may over consume (as should omnis). Pretty much the only one that plant based eaters are more lacking in than omnis is B12. Otherwise plant eaters usually score overall BETTER than omnis, but sadly the BBC leaves this information out of this article (meat industry promo piece), gladly they published this kind of info in a separate article 5 DAYS EARLIER.[2] There are a whole lot of diets within the plant based diet. A particularly healthy one, according to research, is the Whole Food Plant Based diet. And most MDs (which are quite a few) recommending this diet do underline the need for B12 supplementation (both in plant eaters and in omnis). While this article come with a study of 555 Kenyan kids being given omni food scoring better than the group given plant food. Ok. Let me show you this study: > In a large representative population study of more than 8000 British men and women, intelligence in childhood was associated with a vegetarian diet in mid-adulthood, and this was independent of educational attainment and social class.[3] It's bigger (n=8000), it in a developed nation (UK), it controls for all kinds of factors and concludes a correlation between intelligence and vegetarianism. No causation though. But I recon the 555 Kenya school children study also did not prove causation. So? Why would the BBC publish such a piece? In clear contradiction to something they published 5 days earlier? An article that cherry picks to the point it's sneakily suggestive? Every one may judge for themselves but I think it is paid/compensated journalism, at a govt owned outlet. Needles to say, the BBC lost some more point for me today. 1: https://www.plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/the-largest-organization-of-food-nutrition-professionals-admits-vegan-diets-are-suitable-for-all https://www.plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/the-largest-organiz... 2: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health... 3: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/
LatteLazy 7y ago
"Intelligence", a concept that is difficult to define and has no agreed measurement method or standard. "could" a pseudonym for "might" which is also a pseudonym for "might not".
brodouevencode 7y ago
This post will most likely be ratio'ed pretty quickly.
lmilcin 7y ago
One thing is for sure, if you go vegan you need to learn to compose your diet to ensure your body gets everything it needs. It is not impossible or even difficult. It just costs a little bit of effort, that's all.
stevespang 7y ago
This is fake news put out by none other a paid mouthpiece for the meat industry. Take daily a lecithin cap, a simple multivitamin, and a fish oil cap and you get all the things the author claims you are lacking as a vegetarian.

54 points by elorant 7y ago

This is a pretty well written article. Hopefully people read past the headline. The most important bit being "could" affect. Some limited tests have been done on kids which found some difference but its not clear if it has any effect on adults. It also sounds like a vegan diet with a few nutritional supplements could entirely solve the issue. At the very least we know that we can hugely reduce our meat consumption with positive outcomes.

Dumblydorr 7y ago
How is it well written? They make claims about massive swaths of the global population based on a single study from an African school giving kids snacks.
- Polylactic_acid 7y ago
  The article didn't seem to assert them as fact and only suggested that from the limited research, this seems to be the data.
cies 7y ago
Seriously? My self and a few other in this comment section point out why we think the article is total rubbish. And that for a jounalist who claims to be "science". BBC sunk even lower in my estimation today. Here an article they publish 5 days earlier: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health...

SeanFerree 7y ago

Great article!

KitDuncan 7y ago

What a weak article and study. I am not familiar with BBCs content, but I would have expected it to be better quality.

markstos 7y ago
What was weak about the article and study?
- gregcrv 7y ago
  "Others are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes, you’d have to eat about five cups’ worth (equivalent to roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical." Chickpeas, canned, 1 cup 1.1mg of vitamin B6 55% DV Source: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfessional/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-HealthProfession... And let's not talk about their claim that omega3 cannot be found in plants or that vitamin D can only come from supplements...
  - 1024core 7y ago
    Yep, that was a total strawman argument. I read it, and wondered why potato was chosen? Just to make the point, I guess; but that speaks to the sensationalist urge plaguing the author. There was also no information about any conflicts of interest. I'd be interested in knowing if there were any?
  - Zod666 7y ago
    I don't know much about this, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but plant based omega 3's have a horrible conversion rate don't they?
    - ovx99 7y ago
      They have a lesser conversion rate, but what most paleo/anti-vegan arguments neglect to mention in terms of plant omega-3 sources is that if you simply eat more total ALA, the net omega-3 will be the same to your body. Seems obvious, but people never seem to acknowledge that. It's not such a lesser conversion rate that this isn't practical or possible. Not to mention there's studies showing alternative benefits of ALA despite having less conversion rate overall. Similarly with krill oil -- there's less EPA/DHA compared to fish oil per gram but it's utilized differently by the body and has shown variations in bioavailability when measured (krill vs fish oil is an ongoing topic of interest).

markstos 7y ago

I have more energy since shifting towards a vegan diet-- mid-day slumps are rare now and I have more energy after work in the evening as well. Work on complex coding and DevOps tasks continues as before.

dogma1138 7y ago
Was your previous non-vegan diet actually good? As in high on fibrous veggies, moderate amount of complex carbs, low on sugar and high on high quality protein? When people switch to vegan they essentially rely more on home cooked meals and stay away from junk it doesn’t mean that a vegan diet is better than a non vegan diet of the same quality. If you switch from twinkies to lentil patties and cauliflower rice it’s no wonder that you feel better.
- abfan1127 7y ago
  I came here to say this. When I switched from a typical American diet of crappy carbs, soda, and other sugar based crap to a, High Fat, High Protein diet, I got a ton of energy, slept better, etc. While I see a ton of value in my dietary choices, it was the lack of sugar that made life better.
  - somehnguy 7y ago
    I did the keto diet for the majority of last year to lose weight. It was extremely successful and I lost 75 pounds. I noticed the exact same thing you did in regards to energy levels and overall just feeling better. My energy levels did not fluctuate at all during the day, even post heavy meals. I also didn't seem to have any of those random days where you just feel like you're dragging along.
Relys 7y ago
Probably due to eating less simple carbs and sugars.
radicalbyte 7y ago
I had the same results from both a vegan diet and a whole foods diets. Both diets largely excluded processed food (I'd eat tofu, fermented sauces in both, and some high quality ham in the whole food diet). I think that the large ratio of vegetables and lack of simple sugars was the cause more so than the meat. I get a similar boost when following body-building diets, these include simple sugars around training time and highly processed whey isolate. I have always used them to drop weight too so you're running at a calorie deficit. On those diets I've felt fantastic except the day after the binge day (you need to have a surplus once every 7-10 days to avoid starving).

goldenkey 7y ago

Wild, sustainably caught fish is the diet to go for if you care about the environment and your own health. I'm not going to give flak to vegans, their self-sacrifice is indicative of real care for their fellow beings.

unwaryquerier 7y ago
*for those who can afford it. Also, sourcing sustainability isn't an exact science in most first world countries.
ianai 7y ago
I really doubt wild fish can be sustainably caught. We shouldn’t be fishing them at all, I’d claim.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Small fry like common wild sardines found in cans are not a problem for sustainability. They're less toxic too, being so low on the food chain and having a short lifespan. Good source of omega-3s and other nutrients, since you eat the whole fish.
yesenadam 7y ago
>Wild, sustainably caught fish is the diet to go for if you care about the environment But not if you care about fish. I'm always gobsmacked hearing talk like this...from people that apparently have been taught to view animals as...just machines, tools for humans, as if they don't have a life of their own. Just atoms at the disposal of humans. "Stock." Somehow the limit of our "care" is killing them at a rate ("sustainably caught") that enables we can go on doing so. "Self-sacrifice"? Is it a self-sacrifice for you to not, say, own slaves or eat people? No. Those things seem wrong so you don't do them, or they doesn't even occur to you as options, although they used to be societal habits. Not eating animals seems like that to me.
- goldenkey 7y ago
  Everything dies. As long as it is ethical and not torture, I don't see an issue with fishing. Veganism lowers the brainpower output of a human enough to make the overall output works integral substantially impacted. That brainpower lost could be used to alleviate animal suffering like AI models substituting animal testing, etc etc. I personally am using my brain power to create Roylent. It'll solve our food crisis without any plant or animal deaths. Contact me if you are a VC/Angel interested in funding the revolution in eco/carbon friendly, suffering free food.

ovx99 7y ago

From the article: "Other [nutrients] are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes, you’d have to eat about five cups’ worth (equivalent to roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical." And yet when you investigate plant sources of b6, Banana: Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.8mg (49% DV) Beef: Vitamin B6 per 200 Calories 0.4mg (21% DV) Interesting! Very interesting! I wonder what percentage of readers of this article are going to investigate what this authoritative science writer says for themselves? After all, why not trust the expert with a graduate degree working for the BBC? So which is it, is the author unable to investigate in the most basic manner the actual B6 content in foods, when she apparently has a doctorate, or is this some sort of propagandist trash article with an agenda? Because I'm not sure what other options there are based on the way the quoted paragraph is written. Moreover, what are the implications for the BBC's editorial standards that something like this was greenlit?

rusk 7y ago
The BBC really needs to be listed as an unreliable source.
- ianai 7y ago
  I get these same arguments from non-vegans all too often. I then have to have the same discussion that takes a nontrivial amount of time and effort. I’m also usually told I’m wrong or should still rethink my dietary choices. We don’t need to go down this road again. See the rest of the discussion for what they’re point out. It’s bunk.
  - rusk 7y ago
    I was just pointing out that the vast majority of BBC articles posted on HN are junk ... did you mean to reply to me? It used to be the case that BBC was a byword for reliability and impartial reporting but in my opinion it has really taken a nosedive in the last 15 years (my personal theory is the establishment gutted it after the 2003 invasion of Iraq because they were a little bit too impartial). People see a BBC article claiming something controversial and they’re like oh my god this changes everything because they’re still under the impression it still has any kind of journalistic heft but really it is little better than buzzfeed these days.

frandroid 7y ago

> Along with the children who received soup with added oil, they also did the best on a test of arithmetic ability. So huh, really, it was the extra calories, not the meat per se. > In the winter months, when the sun is weaker, omnivores living in the UK have nearly 40% more vitamin D3 in their blood than vegans. ...Because milk is artificially supplemented with D3! Funny that. > No one has looked into how this might be affecting their cognitive abilities yet So don't be a scaremonger? > As for Gandhi That renowned nutritionist!

cies 7y ago
It's a very "appeal to emotion" kind of article for a freelance journalist that claims to be "science".[1] See what the same BBC published just 5 days earlier.[2] 1: https://www.zariagorvett.com/ https://www.zariagorvett.com/ 2: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health...

Ididntdothis 7y ago

There is a wide variety of vegan diets. You could eat only potato chips and drink soda and be vegan. Saying “vegan diet” by itself is pretty meaningless.

cies 7y ago
In fact "vegan diet" is almost contradictory. One could argue it is short for "the diet part of the vegan lifestyle". Vegans try to behave in a way that does not harm of commodify animals as far as practicable. Besides the diet this includes attitudes to clothing materials (leather, wool), entertainment (horse back riding, bull fights, zoos, petstores), and much of animal testing. One cannot really just take the diet bit and still call it "vegan". Likewise food is technically not vegan, it is "suitable for vegans". The term that IS appropriate here is "plant based". "Plant based food" and the "plant based diet" are what the author actually, more accurately, wants to say I believe.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Plant based by itself doesn’t mean much either.
  - cies 7y ago
    What do you mean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant-based_diet And a person "being vegan" clearly means something too. Just "vegan diet" and "vegan food" are, well, I'd call 'm short cuts. They're needlessly unspecific or even a little contradictory. Like saying "I eat vegetarian": I understand what one tries to say, but it is not entirely correct usage of language.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      My point is that to make any connection between plant based diet and health you need to be more specific. You can eat balanced meals with fresh vegetables and good ingredients or you can eat pretzels or potato chips the whole day and drink soda. Both are plant based but the outcome will probably be different.

ianai 7y ago

This is incorrect. B12 is made from bacteria widespread in the “wild environment “, but almost completely washed it of the modern diet. The only reason non-vegans don’t typically have to worry about B12 is that cyanocobalamin or other B12s are added into common foods. There’s an argument that cyanocobalamin is bad for you though as your liver creates cyanide in processing it for use in your body. Here’s the quote from the article. “”” One of the most well-known challenges for vegans is getting enough vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products like eggs and meat. “””

im3w1l 7y ago
What you say may be true, but regardless of how it came to be, it's my understanding that b12 deficiency is much more common in vegans than meat eaters. So vegans do have to be careful in the short term. Maybe in the long term they should campaign for b12 enriching common vegan foods.
- ianai 7y ago
  I’d rather choose my B12. Predominantly B12 fortified foods use cyanocobalamin because it’s cheap, but it’s not the best for your health. We have fully entered a market cycle where people routinely pay more for foods which have fewer ingredients than cheaper alternatives. There are reasons for it (extending shelf life or cheapness), but it is sort of odd to pay less for more “stuff”.
- cies 7y ago
  We all take the supplement. > it's my understanding that b12 [deficiency] is much more common in vegans than [omnies] Nope. Just slightly more common. And I think by the rate that B12 awareness is growing in the vegan movement we will soon see that vegans in general (so without only counting the non B12 supplementing ones) have better test results. Also the reason B12 is in much of animal products (especially the non grass fed, bio-industrially "produced" animals), is because those animals get B12 supplements in their feed (to the benefit of the animal's health(!)). So indirectly the omnis often take the same supplement.
jeffdavis 7y ago

amriksohata 7y ago

According to the game changers documentary, even meat like chicken has to have added vitamins like b12 which is the only reason meat eaters get that extra vitamin, so supplementing is for all

frandroid 7y ago

> As for Gandhi, he eventually abandoned his illicit relationship with meat, and went back to vegetarianism. That was a commitment he took for his mother when he went to study law in England. While today the UK is a hotbed of veg*nism, back then Gandhi had trouble eating well while being veg in London, and started seeking out other vegetarians. He eventually found a vegetarian society, and it is through that society that he became exposed to Henry David Thoreau and his Civil Disobedience. The rest, as they say, is world history.

cgh 7y ago

Great to see they mentioned creatine and carnosine. Creatine in particular is notable for its proven effectiveness as an athletic supplement but it has a host of other, lesser-known benefits[0]. It's only found in animals, although your body does produce baseline amounts from other amino acids. 0. https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/ https://examine.com/supplements/creatine/

theatraine 7y ago

Kombucha is a great vegan source of B12, one of the key nutrients mentioned in the article. The B12 in kombucha actually comes from the culture itself.

frandroid 7y ago
Neat!

jnaddef 7y ago

TL;DR There is no scientific study proving one way or the other and whether you are vegan or not if you do not care about the quality and diversity of what you eat it will probably affect your body and your brain.

Dumblydorr 7y ago

The only source study cited is of schoolchildren receiving a snack in a low income nation. This is bad scientific reporting, they way overstep their bounds, typical BBC article.

cies 7y ago
Check out this much larger (n=8000 instead of n=555) and more in depth study in a developed nation (UK). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ Teaser quote: In a large representative population study of more than 8000 British men and women, intelligence in childhood was associated with a vegetarian diet in mid-adulthood, and this was independent of educational attainment and social class.

cies 7y ago

Seriously BBC? The plant based diet (the diet component of being vegan) is found adequate by the WHO for all stages of life.[1] Now this article if full of picking some studies that have proven that in some case something was wrong with a some form of plant based diet, or less optimal than the form of omni diet the control was on. And this is true! There are unhealthy plant based diets, and there are quite healthy omni diets. And --thanks BBC for pointing it out once again-- us plant eaters should be careful of some nutrients we may lack (as should omnis) AND some forms food we may over consume (as should omnis). Pretty much the only one that plant based eaters are more lacking in than omnis is B12. Otherwise plant eaters usually score overall BETTER than omnis, but sadly the BBC leaves this information out of this article (meat industry promo piece), gladly they published this kind of info in a separate article 5 DAYS EARLIER.[2] There are a whole lot of diets within the plant based diet. A particularly healthy one, according to research, is the Whole Food Plant Based diet. And most MDs (which are quite a few) recommending this diet do underline the need for B12 supplementation (both in plant eaters and in omnis). While this article come with a study of 555 Kenyan kids being given omni food scoring better than the group given plant food. Ok. Let me show you this study: > In a large representative population study of more than 8000 British men and women, intelligence in childhood was associated with a vegetarian diet in mid-adulthood, and this was independent of educational attainment and social class.[3] It's bigger (n=8000), it in a developed nation (UK), it controls for all kinds of factors and concludes a correlation between intelligence and vegetarianism. No causation though. But I recon the 555 Kenya school children study also did not prove causation. So? Why would the BBC publish such a piece? In clear contradiction to something they published 5 days earlier? An article that cherry picks to the point it's sneakily suggestive? Every one may judge for themselves but I think it is paid/compensated journalism, at a govt owned outlet. Needles to say, the BBC lost some more point for me today. 1: https://www.plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/the-largest-organization-of-food-nutrition-professionals-admits-vegan-diets-are-suitable-for-all https://www.plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/the-largest-organiz... 2: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health-benefits-to-going-vegan https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200122-are-there-health... 3: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1790799/

LatteLazy 7y ago

"Intelligence", a concept that is difficult to define and has no agreed measurement method or standard. "could" a pseudonym for "might" which is also a pseudonym for "might not".

brodouevencode 7y ago

This post will most likely be ratio'ed pretty quickly.

lmilcin 7y ago

One thing is for sure, if you go vegan you need to learn to compose your diet to ensure your body gets everything it needs. It is not impossible or even difficult. It just costs a little bit of effort, that's all.

stevespang 7y ago

This is fake news put out by none other a paid mouthpiece for the meat industry. Take daily a lecithin cap, a simple multivitamin, and a fish oil cap and you get all the things the author claims you are lacking as a vegetarian.