7 ms·

Google suspended our app, threatened to delete our Google accounts

35 points by dangero 7y ago

joecool1029 7y ago
What did you think was going to happen? Seriously. Let me tell you what happened: You created a gambling app and tried to pass it off as a game then bought a bunch of fake reviews. But yeah, sure... whining on Medium about it is going to turn things around for you. Stick to peddling on the malware app stores. I'm upvoting this because I can't wait for an Apple employee to stop by and blast this 'Age 12+!' shit[1] out of orbit for violating their TOS[2], specifically 3.1.5(b)(v): [1]https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitcoin-blast/id1494240093 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitcoin-blast/id1494240093 [2]https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cryptocurrencies https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cry... EDIT: Please also see Google's policy on gambling apps (Which guess what? not permitted in the US!) https://play.google.com/about/restricted-content/gambling/ https://play.google.com/about/restricted-content/gambling/
- chupa-chups 7y ago
  Apple? Isn‘t this about google? (Sincerely puzzled, but it‘s late over here)
  - duskwuff 7y ago
    It's the iOS version of the Android app that got pulled (app.getloaded.bitcoinblast). Seems like a fair assumption that the Android app was substantially similar.
    - dangero 7y ago
      They are similar although the assumptions about what the game entails written by joecool1029 are absolutely false. joecool1029 has not even read the description clearly let alone seen the game in action. Lots of false accusations from this one. We have not violated any of Google's terms, or Apple's for that matter.
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    The app I linked is the same app by the same guy and it's in violation of at least 2 sections of Apple's ToS. It's only a matter of time before Apple does the same thing Google did.
    - dangero 7y ago
      What terms does it violate? We have read them all in detail. I'll wait.
      - sebastien_b 7y ago
        Indeed - I'd like to know which subsection states you can't do any marketing for your app. *"marketing" != paying for reviews, as this joecool1029 seems to assume.
- DoctorOW 7y ago
  I'm unsure how you came to the conclusion about the reviews being fake. Is there more information on this?
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    It's called 'context clues'. You don't get all 5 star reviews for an app just launched unless you're using relatives, friends, and paying for reviews. Also, as their description states: It takes a long time to cash out the bitcoin, to receive even 1 cent worth... yet there are reviewers claiming they've cashed out within the first week? Yeah, no.
    - dangero 7y ago
      You can cash out on the first day -- you're making assumptions without trying the app. What you're saying is false. Edit: Also regarding the reviews on a new app it's called marketing you should look into it. What you do is, you pay money and then people hear about your app and go download it. People do it when they launch apps so they can get off to a good start in the store.
      - shultays 7y ago
        Which one is it? "BE ADVISED: It takes a long time to earn enough Loyalty Points to cash out for a meaningful amount of Bitcoin" or "You can cash out on the first day"?
        dangero 7y ago
        "meaningful amount" -- the app rewards users in a very small amount we're very clear about that. There's no contradiction there. You can withdraw even a fraction of a penny on the first day we're not hiding anything. Our users know this.
        shultays 7y ago
        Huh, so there are actual people out there that claims "you can make money on your first day!" and rate apps 5 stars because you can make a fraction of a cent. I am sorry but I will disagree with your definition of marketing. If you are creating fake reviews that is just lying, not marketting
- dangero 7y ago
  There is no gambling in the app you're assuming a lot without trying the app. You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin -- did you even read the description? Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action. Edit 2: Did you read the post? We had 20,000 reviews and over a million users you think that was fake generated traffic? Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there.
  - joecool1029 7y ago
    >You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin >Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action. Seems like a contradiction to me. From Google, "For all other locations, we don't allow content or services that facilitate online gambling, including, but not limited to, online casinos, sports betting and lotteries, and games of skill that offer prizes of cash or other real world value." Most would agree redeeming bitcoin provides access to real world value. >Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there. Aw come on, you're gonna make dang mad with these personal attacks. You should be paying me for taking the time out of my day to consult and provide this educational seminar. I take BTC: 1JRtfLaknTjzsLowQZYMLsanDx76rFhtER
    - dangero 7y ago
      It's not a "game of skill" or gambling look into Skillz or World Winner you're not familiar with the terminology being used here those are very specific things. The term from Apple you're mentioning came about because during the ICO era people were rewarding users for taking actions like downloading an app, retweeting something, etc. Our apps do not do that. It's not a complicated scheme. You earn loyalty points for playing the game, you cash those out to Bitcoin.
  - 7y ago
theartfuldodger 7y ago
Regardless of the legitimacy of the app, it is unwise to be dependent on Google for your entire infrastructure. They do and have shutdown entire accounts with no information, feedback or appeals. I'm overly dependent on them currently myself. We had a recent issue in accounting where an unaccounted for charge kept hitting billing from Google LLC. As we use and sell Google Suite, run a few million in Google ads and have limited cloud services we assumed the error was on our side. I audit all google ads looking for appropriate matches and then call Google Ad support, which was helpful and able to confirm the charges were not in any way related to Ads ( billing prefix suggested it was not but frequency aligned with how ads bill so was the most likely candidate) They could not tell us what it was for or what "google llc" is A google search for the prefix identified it as what is used for Google Play. That is the one service that has no legitimate uses on our corporate card. Contacting Google play about the charges and asking for clarification and disputing was not difficult. They have an internal review period. I think 5-7 days, the review came back as. Legitimate charges. Ok, what for? They can't tell us. What? These were multiple charges of $500 adding up to nearly 5k in a month, but they can't match the charge to a service? And with several million in yearly spending with Google, one would hope for a little more response time and explanation, but, that's chump change to them. I will still be using every service, but I definitely would invite some alternatives as It is unwise to depend on Google for anything.
- dangero 7y ago
  Right this is a nightmare example. You get too far into Google and it feels OK, until it's not and then you realize it.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  I've had clients that operate in such 'sensitive' or 'high-risk' areas. Specifically, ones like penny stock promoters and now some crpytocurrency promoters. I could grind my axe about what can happen with low-risk clients getting shafted by Google, but this submission comes along with the territory they chose to operate in. It's an expected result. The thing is people like my earlier mentioned clients know they are in a field that walks the tightrope between what is legal and what isn't. There's claims they can't make, disclaimers they must post. But that's not all that's dealt with. Even simple sweepstakes have to comply with some basic regulations and required notices. Google and stuff like merchant accounts treat that type of client just like they are lepers. Nobody wants to touch them, nobody wants to hear from them . They have a market, but not on FAANG's marketplaces, search engines, cloud platforms, etc. Because of it, they have to use more expensive high-risk merchant accounts and roll with the punches from Google issuing manual search ranking penalties because this is an industry they don't want to promote. Whether or not you're buying services off Google they still wield a massive amount of power through their monopoly on search. It is inescapable. OP hasn't realized any of this, hasn't even tried to seem compliant or sneak in with their services while still doing his thing. This is a good learning experience.
throwaway4392 7y ago
Don't build a product that solely relies on another product or service that cannot be replaced. That's just a bad business :)
- dangero 7y ago
  True for any app company really but true it's a weak point of our offering at the moment. Startups tend to rely on another product early on, then de-risk as they grow which is our plan.
drummer 7y ago
There are way too many stories about Google and Apple suddenly closing accounts and removing apps to trust them with your business.
- dangero 7y ago
  Right, my red flag is just why does a suspended app cause them to threaten us in regards to shutting off our G-Suite email and cloud servers unrelated to the app. No sane business can use their platform with those kinds of threats.
  - drummer 7y ago
    You are correct my friend.
dangero 7y ago
Update on this thread: Google just removed our suspension and asked us to resubmit the app. We have done so and are waiting to hear back. I've learned a lot from this post on Hacker News about the general feeling people have about Bitcoin these days. I was accused of several scams and manipulations in this thread, all of which were false. I was a scammer until proven innocent and it appears to some the jury is still out or they have already decided that I am a scammer (I'm not). Here's the Twitter thread of our users that broke through to Google if you want to see a sampling of our loyal Android users: https://twitter.com/bling_fi/status/1221902959023312896?s=20 https://twitter.com/bling_fi/status/1221902959023312896?s=20
dangero 7y ago
Final update on this thread: We are back on Google Play with no explanation or retraction of threats to related accounts if we get suspended again. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.getloaded.bitcoinblast&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.getloaded....

35 points by dangero 7y ago

What did you think was going to happen? Seriously. Let me tell you what happened: You created a gambling app and tried to pass it off as a game then bought a bunch of fake reviews. But yeah, sure... whining on Medium about it is going to turn things around for you. Stick to peddling on the malware app stores. I'm upvoting this because I can't wait for an Apple employee to stop by and blast this 'Age 12+!' shit[1] out of orbit for violating their TOS[2], specifically 3.1.5(b)(v): [1]https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitcoin-blast/id1494240093 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/bitcoin-blast/id1494240093 [2]https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cryptocurrencies https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#cry... EDIT: Please also see Google's policy on gambling apps (Which guess what? not permitted in the US!) https://play.google.com/about/restricted-content/gambling/ https://play.google.com/about/restricted-content/gambling/

chupa-chups 7y ago
Apple? Isn‘t this about google? (Sincerely puzzled, but it‘s late over here)
- duskwuff 7y ago
  It's the iOS version of the Android app that got pulled (app.getloaded.bitcoinblast). Seems like a fair assumption that the Android app was substantially similar.
  - dangero 7y ago
    They are similar although the assumptions about what the game entails written by joecool1029 are absolutely false. joecool1029 has not even read the description clearly let alone seen the game in action. Lots of false accusations from this one. We have not violated any of Google's terms, or Apple's for that matter.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  The app I linked is the same app by the same guy and it's in violation of at least 2 sections of Apple's ToS. It's only a matter of time before Apple does the same thing Google did.
  - dangero 7y ago
    What terms does it violate? We have read them all in detail. I'll wait.
    - sebastien_b 7y ago
      Indeed - I'd like to know which subsection states you can't do any marketing for your app. *"marketing" != paying for reviews, as this joecool1029 seems to assume.
DoctorOW 7y ago
I'm unsure how you came to the conclusion about the reviews being fake. Is there more information on this?
- joecool1029 7y ago
  It's called 'context clues'. You don't get all 5 star reviews for an app just launched unless you're using relatives, friends, and paying for reviews. Also, as their description states: It takes a long time to cash out the bitcoin, to receive even 1 cent worth... yet there are reviewers claiming they've cashed out within the first week? Yeah, no.
  - dangero 7y ago
    You can cash out on the first day -- you're making assumptions without trying the app. What you're saying is false. Edit: Also regarding the reviews on a new app it's called marketing you should look into it. What you do is, you pay money and then people hear about your app and go download it. People do it when they launch apps so they can get off to a good start in the store.
    - shultays 7y ago
      Which one is it? "BE ADVISED: It takes a long time to earn enough Loyalty Points to cash out for a meaningful amount of Bitcoin" or "You can cash out on the first day"?
      - dangero 7y ago
        "meaningful amount" -- the app rewards users in a very small amount we're very clear about that. There's no contradiction there. You can withdraw even a fraction of a penny on the first day we're not hiding anything. Our users know this.
        shultays 7y ago
        Huh, so there are actual people out there that claims "you can make money on your first day!" and rate apps 5 stars because you can make a fraction of a cent. I am sorry but I will disagree with your definition of marketing. If you are creating fake reviews that is just lying, not marketting
dangero 7y ago
There is no gambling in the app you're assuming a lot without trying the app. You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin -- did you even read the description? Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action. Edit 2: Did you read the post? We had 20,000 reviews and over a million users you think that was fake generated traffic? Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  >You earn the exact same amount of points on every level -- those points are convertible to Bitcoin >Edit 1: Regarding the term that you claim it's violating, we do not reward users for taking any specific actions. They receive loyalty points for playing. That's not a specific action. Seems like a contradiction to me. From Google, "For all other locations, we don't allow content or services that facilitate online gambling, including, but not limited to, online casinos, sports betting and lotteries, and games of skill that offer prizes of cash or other real world value." Most would agree redeeming bitcoin provides access to real world value. >Edit 3: Google is hiring you might want to apply in the Google Play review department because you seem to jump to a lot of conclusions you'd fit in well there. Aw come on, you're gonna make dang mad with these personal attacks. You should be paying me for taking the time out of my day to consult and provide this educational seminar. I take BTC: 1JRtfLaknTjzsLowQZYMLsanDx76rFhtER
  - dangero 7y ago
    It's not a "game of skill" or gambling look into Skillz or World Winner you're not familiar with the terminology being used here those are very specific things. The term from Apple you're mentioning came about because during the ICO era people were rewarding users for taking actions like downloading an app, retweeting something, etc. Our apps do not do that. It's not a complicated scheme. You earn loyalty points for playing the game, you cash those out to Bitcoin.
- 7y ago

theartfuldodger 7y ago

Regardless of the legitimacy of the app, it is unwise to be dependent on Google for your entire infrastructure. They do and have shutdown entire accounts with no information, feedback or appeals. I'm overly dependent on them currently myself. We had a recent issue in accounting where an unaccounted for charge kept hitting billing from Google LLC. As we use and sell Google Suite, run a few million in Google ads and have limited cloud services we assumed the error was on our side. I audit all google ads looking for appropriate matches and then call Google Ad support, which was helpful and able to confirm the charges were not in any way related to Ads ( billing prefix suggested it was not but frequency aligned with how ads bill so was the most likely candidate) They could not tell us what it was for or what "google llc" is A google search for the prefix identified it as what is used for Google Play. That is the one service that has no legitimate uses on our corporate card. Contacting Google play about the charges and asking for clarification and disputing was not difficult. They have an internal review period. I think 5-7 days, the review came back as. Legitimate charges. Ok, what for? They can't tell us. What? These were multiple charges of $500 adding up to nearly 5k in a month, but they can't match the charge to a service? And with several million in yearly spending with Google, one would hope for a little more response time and explanation, but, that's chump change to them. I will still be using every service, but I definitely would invite some alternatives as It is unwise to depend on Google for anything.

dangero 7y ago
Right this is a nightmare example. You get too far into Google and it feels OK, until it's not and then you realize it.
joecool1029 7y ago
I've had clients that operate in such 'sensitive' or 'high-risk' areas. Specifically, ones like penny stock promoters and now some crpytocurrency promoters. I could grind my axe about what can happen with low-risk clients getting shafted by Google, but this submission comes along with the territory they chose to operate in. It's an expected result. The thing is people like my earlier mentioned clients know they are in a field that walks the tightrope between what is legal and what isn't. There's claims they can't make, disclaimers they must post. But that's not all that's dealt with. Even simple sweepstakes have to comply with some basic regulations and required notices. Google and stuff like merchant accounts treat that type of client just like they are lepers. Nobody wants to touch them, nobody wants to hear from them . They have a market, but not on FAANG's marketplaces, search engines, cloud platforms, etc. Because of it, they have to use more expensive high-risk merchant accounts and roll with the punches from Google issuing manual search ranking penalties because this is an industry they don't want to promote. Whether or not you're buying services off Google they still wield a massive amount of power through their monopoly on search. It is inescapable. OP hasn't realized any of this, hasn't even tried to seem compliant or sneak in with their services while still doing his thing. This is a good learning experience.

throwaway4392 7y ago

Don't build a product that solely relies on another product or service that cannot be replaced. That's just a bad business :)

dangero 7y ago
True for any app company really but true it's a weak point of our offering at the moment. Startups tend to rely on another product early on, then de-risk as they grow which is our plan.

drummer 7y ago

There are way too many stories about Google and Apple suddenly closing accounts and removing apps to trust them with your business.

dangero 7y ago
Right, my red flag is just why does a suspended app cause them to threaten us in regards to shutting off our G-Suite email and cloud servers unrelated to the app. No sane business can use their platform with those kinds of threats.
- drummer 7y ago
  You are correct my friend.

dangero 7y ago

Update on this thread: Google just removed our suspension and asked us to resubmit the app. We have done so and are waiting to hear back. I've learned a lot from this post on Hacker News about the general feeling people have about Bitcoin these days. I was accused of several scams and manipulations in this thread, all of which were false. I was a scammer until proven innocent and it appears to some the jury is still out or they have already decided that I am a scammer (I'm not). Here's the Twitter thread of our users that broke through to Google if you want to see a sampling of our loyal Android users: https://twitter.com/bling_fi/status/1221902959023312896?s=20 https://twitter.com/bling_fi/status/1221902959023312896?s=20

dangero 7y ago

Final update on this thread: We are back on Google Play with no explanation or retraction of threats to related accounts if we get suspended again. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.getloaded.bitcoinblast&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.getloaded....