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> And my point is, that shame is a form of violence (not all violence is physical). Yes, it can be justified on occasions. If you dislike the word violence (in

> And my point is, that shame is a form of violence (not all violence is physical). Yes, it can be justified on occasions. If you dislike the word violence (in this context), then consider *intentionally making someone suffer". All violence is physical. Metaphorically speaking of shame as violent is an attempt to make shame sound inexcusable when, in reality, shame is necessary. I don't think it's possible to do a good job raising a child without intentionally making them suffer in order to teach them things. The issue is making someone suffer more than is necessary or making them suffer for the wrong reasons. The suffering part isn't the problem.

maxduckworth 7y ago
Definition of violence 1a: the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy b: an instance of violent treatment or procedure 2: injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE 3a: intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm b: vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR also : an instance of such action or feeling c: a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE 4: undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)
- leftyted 7y ago
  1a is the definition of violence. The other definitions are metaphors.
maxduckworth 7y ago
> The issue is making someone suffer more than is necessary or making them suffer for the wrong reasons Agreed. I just think that most people would call causing suffering more than is necessary and for the wrong reasons "violent". If not "violent", what would you call a shame based intervention that causes unnecessary suffering or is done for the wrong reasons?
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Just call it evil and wrong. (It is in almost all ethical and moral systems.) You can also call it immoral and a few other adjectives. And for added irony, it should also be shameful.

maxduckworth 7y ago

Definition of violence 1a: the use of physical force so as to injure, abuse, damage, or destroy b: an instance of violent treatment or procedure 2: injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : OUTRAGE 3a: intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force the violence of the storm b: vehement feeling or expression : FERVOR also : an instance of such action or feeling c: a clashing or jarring quality : DISCORDANCE 4: undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)

leftyted 7y ago
1a is the definition of violence. The other definitions are metaphors.

maxduckworth 7y ago

> The issue is making someone suffer more than is necessary or making them suffer for the wrong reasons Agreed. I just think that most people would call causing suffering more than is necessary and for the wrong reasons "violent". If not "violent", what would you call a shame based intervention that causes unnecessary suffering or is done for the wrong reasons?

AstralStorm 7y ago
Just call it evil and wrong. (It is in almost all ethical and moral systems.) You can also call it immoral and a few other adjectives. And for added irony, it should also be shameful.