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Nothing will change until every single person that calls for climate change stops using gas, plastic and any other CO2 causing activity. (like flying in planes,

Nothing will change until every single person that calls for climate change stops using gas, plastic and any other CO2 causing activity. (like flying in planes, dirty fossil fuel burning ships, etc...) Can't demand others to do it you won't do it first. Edit: Removed hyperbole.

empath75 7y ago
There's a long history of effective environment regulations around the world that demonstrates the opposite.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  That's not what I am referring to. You can't get the masses to support climate change when the leaders of climate change are some of the worst polluters.
snthd 7y ago
> Can't demand others to do it you won't do it first. Saving the environment is not about individual choice, it's about fixing an unsustainable system. It's unsustainable because negative externalities are not effectively taxed/banned. Bad behaviour is rewarded financially which further drives change in the wrong direction. Making it about individual choice, and therefore subject to "hypocrisy" is an effective way of preventing change. Divide and conquer. It's undeniably the pervasive narative in the media (but again this can be explained by systemic effects - where does the money come from? Who stands to benefit?). You can demand new rules that come in for everyone at the same time. That's how tax rates change, how universal healthcare systems are established, how slavery is ended. Societies are ultimately shaped by what people believe is possible. Edit: Your comment has changed, but you're still expressing the conviction that everyone has to do things voluntarily. That's not true - only enough power has to come together to make and enforce laws. A high bar, but not as insurmountable.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  > Societies are ultimately shaped by what people believe is possible. This is exactly my point. If 100% of the people calling for climate change "rules/laws" have no ability to follow their own ideas now, what hope is there? (I removed one sentence that I felt was a little inflammatory, it was extraneous)

empath75 7y ago

There's a long history of effective environment regulations around the world that demonstrates the opposite.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
That's not what I am referring to. You can't get the masses to support climate change when the leaders of climate change are some of the worst polluters.

snthd 7y ago

> Can't demand others to do it you won't do it first. Saving the environment is not about individual choice, it's about fixing an unsustainable system. It's unsustainable because negative externalities are not effectively taxed/banned. Bad behaviour is rewarded financially which further drives change in the wrong direction. Making it about individual choice, and therefore subject to "hypocrisy" is an effective way of preventing change. Divide and conquer. It's undeniably the pervasive narative in the media (but again this can be explained by systemic effects - where does the money come from? Who stands to benefit?). You can demand new rules that come in for everyone at the same time. That's how tax rates change, how universal healthcare systems are established, how slavery is ended. Societies are ultimately shaped by what people believe is possible. Edit: Your comment has changed, but you're still expressing the conviction that everyone has to do things voluntarily. That's not true - only enough power has to come together to make and enforce laws. A high bar, but not as insurmountable.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
> Societies are ultimately shaped by what people believe is possible. This is exactly my point. If 100% of the people calling for climate change "rules/laws" have no ability to follow their own ideas now, what hope is there? (I removed one sentence that I felt was a little inflammatory, it was extraneous)