3 ms·

This ties nicely into the two questions I have about the article. First, have you seen clear, lasting changes in anxiety and depression? If the single-dose eff

This ties nicely into the two questions I have about the article. First, have you seen clear, lasting changes in anxiety and depression? If the single-dose effect for cancer patients really is this strong, it seems like everyone who messed with mushrooms once in college should be 'treated' also. Second, how well do those feelings of contentment stick around? The stories I hear of enlightenment on mushrooms, DMT, any other "entheogen" all have the element you describe of being unable to grasp the discovery after the trip, and once it's in hindsight I can imagine that memory being anywhere from comforting to aggravatingly out-of-reach.

metadaemon 7y ago
I believe it's intent that matters here. It's possible to have a life-changing experience on mushrooms alone, but I've had better luck reprogramming unwanted neural pathways by explicitly going into the experience with strong intent towards a goal.
pmoriarty 7y ago
"If the single-dose effect for cancer patients really is this strong, it seems like everyone who messed with mushrooms once in college should be 'treated' also." Set, drug, dose, and setting all play huge roles in the effects one gets. First, a lot of drugs on the black market aren't what they claim to be. So someone who tried what they thought were mushrooms in college might have gotten something else. The dose of psilocybin one gets from black market mushrooms is also difficult if not impossible to gauge. So someone who tried mushrooms in college could have gotten too low or too high a dose. Many people are also completely clueless when it comes to how to optimally prepare for and take drugs, and believe all sorts of myths and misconceptions about drugs. So many of those who took mushrooms in college probably did so in very poor circumstances, with no intention or even self-destructive intentions (such as those that often go hand-in-hand in binge-drinking), and possibly with misconceptions about what the experience will be like. This is all very, very different from taking psilocybin or other psychedelics in a carefully designed study, with trained therapists who typically give days if not weeks of therapy before the sessions, during, and after the sessions, are given pure, precisely measured doses. The setting is designed for maximum therapeutic effect, as are the resources available during the session (such as having pictures of loved-ones on hand to focus on at the peak of the session). The sessions are usually done with light blocked out by an eye-shade, and with music carefully designed to facilitate the session. The therapists are on hand to give support and help the patient work through any diffcult experiences, and are encouraged to work through such difficulties rather than run away from them. Acceptance is encouraged. Because of this careful preparation, planning, and professional therapy, the results are likely to be much different than casual mushroom use in college by people who are likely to be ignorant of psychedelics in general, and of how to properly run a therapeutic session in particular.
shoes_for_thee 7y ago
The contentment can stick around. I guess it depends on the person and the drug, and what happened and what was sought... Maybe the problem is in the rarity and ineffability of the experience. We don't have a huge frame of reference for mystical-type experiences, and we don't have much of a common language to describe them. We rely on metaphors, the way we do when describing being in love. When it's all over, you might think, "What the hell was that?" A memory of the feeling-of-the-thing, but no real word for what-it-is-like.
Moodles 7y ago
> First, have you seen clear, lasting changes in anxiety and depression? If the single-dose effect for cancer patients really is this strong, it seems like everyone who messed with mushrooms once in college should be 'treated' also. I think mushrooms can open the door, but you need to use them as a catalyst to take action in your day-to-day life to actually have lasting change. I've still been an asshole occasionally since taking mushrooms. Ultimately you're responsible for your own change, but mushrooms can help you want to change. > Second, how well do those feelings of contentment stick around? The stories I hear of enlightenment on mushrooms, DMT, any other "entheogen" all have the element you describe of being unable to grasp the discovery after the trip, and once it's in hindsight I can imagine that memory being anywhere from comforting to aggravatingly out-of-reach. I've had an egoless state for a couple hours or so afterwards, and then maybe for a couple days afterwards I'm generally more relaxed and happy: maybe I'll smile more and say hello to people I barely talk to. But the feeling fades after that. Lasting change happens if you really take the lesson to heart and create change in your normal life.
Diederich 7y ago
I've never dealt with non-situational depression or anxiety, but it might be useful to share a little of my experience with LSD. On or around my birthdays for the past five years, I've been taking a moderate to very large dose of LSD. The lowest dose was around 100 micros, the largest was 10x that. Me being me, with extensive planning, preparation, and a lot of help from my wife, my first dose in 2015 was the largest one. The experience was moderately life changing. Things were already going pretty well, but after the trip, I was able to do even more 'personal brain cleanup'. Specifically, it allowed me to release a big chunk of the personal arrogance I still carried. This has been a nearly life-long process, but the trip grealy accelerated it. It also helped me further improve my (already pretty good) work/life balance. It's not that I loved my family more, it's just that the things that I already knew (time at work is a means to an end, time with my family is truly the most important thing) became more easily actionable. Lastly, (for this reply...there more aspects than I have time to type up right now) it allowed me to read, understand and empathize with other people's actions more effectively.

metadaemon 7y ago

I believe it's intent that matters here. It's possible to have a life-changing experience on mushrooms alone, but I've had better luck reprogramming unwanted neural pathways by explicitly going into the experience with strong intent towards a goal.

pmoriarty 7y ago

"If the single-dose effect for cancer patients really is this strong, it seems like everyone who messed with mushrooms once in college should be 'treated' also." Set, drug, dose, and setting all play huge roles in the effects one gets. First, a lot of drugs on the black market aren't what they claim to be. So someone who tried what they thought were mushrooms in college might have gotten something else. The dose of psilocybin one gets from black market mushrooms is also difficult if not impossible to gauge. So someone who tried mushrooms in college could have gotten too low or too high a dose. Many people are also completely clueless when it comes to how to optimally prepare for and take drugs, and believe all sorts of myths and misconceptions about drugs. So many of those who took mushrooms in college probably did so in very poor circumstances, with no intention or even self-destructive intentions (such as those that often go hand-in-hand in binge-drinking), and possibly with misconceptions about what the experience will be like. This is all very, very different from taking psilocybin or other psychedelics in a carefully designed study, with trained therapists who typically give days if not weeks of therapy before the sessions, during, and after the sessions, are given pure, precisely measured doses. The setting is designed for maximum therapeutic effect, as are the resources available during the session (such as having pictures of loved-ones on hand to focus on at the peak of the session). The sessions are usually done with light blocked out by an eye-shade, and with music carefully designed to facilitate the session. The therapists are on hand to give support and help the patient work through any diffcult experiences, and are encouraged to work through such difficulties rather than run away from them. Acceptance is encouraged. Because of this careful preparation, planning, and professional therapy, the results are likely to be much different than casual mushroom use in college by people who are likely to be ignorant of psychedelics in general, and of how to properly run a therapeutic session in particular.

shoes_for_thee 7y ago

The contentment can stick around. I guess it depends on the person and the drug, and what happened and what was sought... Maybe the problem is in the rarity and ineffability of the experience. We don't have a huge frame of reference for mystical-type experiences, and we don't have much of a common language to describe them. We rely on metaphors, the way we do when describing being in love. When it's all over, you might think, "What the hell was that?" A memory of the feeling-of-the-thing, but no real word for what-it-is-like.

Moodles 7y ago

> First, have you seen clear, lasting changes in anxiety and depression? If the single-dose effect for cancer patients really is this strong, it seems like everyone who messed with mushrooms once in college should be 'treated' also. I think mushrooms can open the door, but you need to use them as a catalyst to take action in your day-to-day life to actually have lasting change. I've still been an asshole occasionally since taking mushrooms. Ultimately you're responsible for your own change, but mushrooms can help you want to change. > Second, how well do those feelings of contentment stick around? The stories I hear of enlightenment on mushrooms, DMT, any other "entheogen" all have the element you describe of being unable to grasp the discovery after the trip, and once it's in hindsight I can imagine that memory being anywhere from comforting to aggravatingly out-of-reach. I've had an egoless state for a couple hours or so afterwards, and then maybe for a couple days afterwards I'm generally more relaxed and happy: maybe I'll smile more and say hello to people I barely talk to. But the feeling fades after that. Lasting change happens if you really take the lesson to heart and create change in your normal life.

Diederich 7y ago

I've never dealt with non-situational depression or anxiety, but it might be useful to share a little of my experience with LSD. On or around my birthdays for the past five years, I've been taking a moderate to very large dose of LSD. The lowest dose was around 100 micros, the largest was 10x that. Me being me, with extensive planning, preparation, and a lot of help from my wife, my first dose in 2015 was the largest one. The experience was moderately life changing. Things were already going pretty well, but after the trip, I was able to do even more 'personal brain cleanup'. Specifically, it allowed me to release a big chunk of the personal arrogance I still carried. This has been a nearly life-long process, but the trip grealy accelerated it. It also helped me further improve my (already pretty good) work/life balance. It's not that I loved my family more, it's just that the things that I already knew (time at work is a means to an end, time with my family is truly the most important thing) became more easily actionable. Lastly, (for this reply...there more aspects than I have time to type up right now) it allowed me to read, understand and empathize with other people's actions more effectively.