4 ms·
1) this study only had a six month follow up. Where did the headline pull five years’ from? 2) there was no placebo group, just low dose and high dose. The inv
by prostheticvamp 7y ago
1) this study only had a six month follow up. Where did the headline pull five years’ from?
2) there was no placebo group, just low dose and high dose. The investigators called low dose “placebo like,” which anyone familiar with microdosing knows is bullshit.
3) the study size is still fucking tiny. With less than 30 subjects per arm, you can’t take the central limit theorem for granted. With 566 patients screened and 51 accepted, I’m particularly leery - especially since they offloaded all discussion of their exclusion criteria to a supplement no one ever looks at.
4) They used a crossover study. What this means is, as per their methods:
Patient enrolled at week 0. Got low dose (or high dose) at week 4, on average. Got the other dose (high, if the first was low) at week 9. Follow up with outcome measures at week 24.
Crossovers are used to amplify your sample size IFF the effect of the drug is expected to be significantly shorter than the time period between administrations.
In this case, that’s not true: NO previous research suggests that the mood effects of shrooms last significantly <4 weeks. And they know that, which is why their follow up was at 6 months.
In short, this study wasn’t “high dose shrooms show improvement in mood for six months, as shown by comparison to placebo.”
It wasn’t even “high dose shrooms show greater improvement in mood at six months than low dose shrooms”.
It’s “people that take high dose shrooms and then low dose shrooms show better mood in a few months than people that take low dose shrooms and then high dose shrooms, with statistically invalid tests, and no placebo to show that this wasn’t just baseline improvement because, hey, people do cope over time.”
Shit study. Shit shit absolute bullshit.
Edit:
My bad.
I was looking at the original crap study. Not the 5 year follow up of the crap study. Old crap still crap.
- Noos 7y agoI noticed this in the study paper too: "Participants who reported use of cannabis or dronabinol were instructed not to use for at least 24 h before sessions." I wonder why there isn't any number of how many people used cannabis during the trial or its effect compared to people who didn't.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago>2) there was no placebo group, just low dose and high dose. The investigators called low dose “placebo like,” which anyone familiar with microdosing knows is bullshit. Care to elaborate? Microdoses are supposed to be below the active threshold.
- prostheticvamp 7y agoMicrodosing is beneath the hallucinogenic dose range, but not below the range of having any effect at all - eg, Prochazkova 2018, Anderson 2019 (both of the 2019 Anderson pubs). I’m not saying the microdosing studies are well done, but they surely prohibit taking for granted that microdosing is a placebo. What little evidence there is tilts away from that.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago>but they surely prohibit taking for granted that microdosing is a placebo. What little evidence there is tilts away from that. No, I don't believe that's true. In fact, this meta study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ actually explicitly mentions that the body of research doesn't support your claim about microdosing and placebo.