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I had a ring for one week. After about 24hrs of ridiculous setup, constant notifications when I left the house or anything happened inside the detection zone e

I had a ring for one week. After about 24hrs of ridiculous setup, constant notifications when I left the house or anything happened inside the detection zone even shadows, and realizing I didn’t coming home to look into a camera that was constantly uploading to someone’s computer I’ll never be allowed to access - I put that POS back in the box and returned it. Nice idea in theory, exploitive data mine in practice. I hate it.

ActorNightly 7y ago
Ring doesn't upload data unless you pay for a cloud storage account. You could argue that the doorbell transmits the video/audio over the internet, but that transport is encrypted to the Ring app, and its deleted off of AWS after its viewed on the App. If you really want privacy, you should also return your cellphone and go back to using a flip phone.
- Rooster61 7y ago
  > and its deleted off of AWS after its viewed on the App How do you know this? And how are you sure that information isn't shared before being deleted? Also, it's not only about privacy (although I do think people should care a bit more about it than they do on average). Data stored and sold makes money that is dependent on you to produce, yet you get no compensation for it. Many people have a problem with that, including myself.
  - ActorNightly 7y ago
    > How do you know this? And how are you sure that information isn't shared before being deleted? Ring states it on their website. https://shop.ring.com/pages/privacy https://shop.ring.com/pages/privacy I mean, nobody REALLY knows, but if that's the standard you are going to use, then you pretty much have to assume that any company can and will spy on you, and apply the same critique to them. Based on reports and news, Amazon has been perhaps the best out of the big companies when dealing with privacy, as they are fairly transparent on the data they collect for what use, and had not had any major cases of leaks despite them perhaps having the best data set of peoples behavior with shopping history which is the most relevant to advertisers. Being that Ring uses AWS for back end, as can be verified through network traffic inspection, I personally don't see any red flags with them saying they delete the data. >Data stored and sold makes money that is dependent on you to produce, yet you get no compensation for it. This is HORRIBLY wrong. Gmail, youtube, reddit and most everything that is free on the web and on mobile is your compensation for your data. Yes, companies make profit, but they still spend that advertising revenue on hosting and maintaining that service, and recouping the initial investment they put into building the thing.
    - Rooster61 7y ago
      > I mean, nobody REALLY knows, but if that's the standard you are going to use, then you pretty much have to assume that any company can and will spy on you, and apply the same critique to them. That is the standard I use and I do apply the same critique to every company. > Gmail, youtube, reddit and most everything that is free on the web and on mobile is your compensation for your data. First off, I don't use all of those services. According to your logic, you and every other person who has data in their system and is not using a service is owed cold hard cash. Secondly, the value that I get out of using them is not commensurate with the profit they are making. These companies are making EXORBITANT amounts of money off of peoples data. It is in no way acceptable compensation. Third, I can't opt out of them using the data, even if I stop using a service or if I never used their service at all.
      - ActorNightly 7y ago
        >That is the standard I use and I do apply the same critique to every company. Then why are you on HN? They could be collecting your IP and data on you. >First off, I don't use all of those services. According to your logic, you and every other person who has data in their system and is not using a service is owed cold hard cash. The only data that exists for people that don't use services is 3p tracking data, which is from people visiting websites, that are supported by ads. So yes, if you view content on a website and a tracking cookie or pixel records you, that is you using the website, and the advertiser is paying the host for this which allows the host to continue hosing the website. > These companies are making EXORBITANT amounts of money off of peoples data Whoa, this is like almost a communism argument. Dictating how much money anyone should make is not a good road to go down on. There is nothing wrong with companies generating profit, they are capitalizing on supply versus demand.
    - heavyset_go 7y ago
      > Based on reports and news, Amazon has been perhaps the best out of the big companies when dealing with privacy They pitch their Ring doorbells as a surveillance network to police departments, provide law enforcement with an easy to use interface and map of their camera network, and allow police to go after people who choose not to share their recordings without a warrant. With a warrant or subpeona, all police have to do is serve it to Amazon, and the company can hand over your recordings without ever letting you know.
- mojuba 7y ago
  > If you really want privacy, you should also return your cellphone and go back to using a flip phone. Or how about an iPhone with minimal or no 3rd party apps? Which is practically impossible unfortunately because in order operate in the modern world you need at least a few 3rd party messenger apps, your bank's app and maybe a few more. Theoretically, however, I can have a phone free from social platforms and 3rd party analytics platforms like MixPanel or AppsFlyer, with regard to whom I have absolute zero trust.
  - JadeNB 7y ago
    > Which is practically impossible unfortunately because in order operate in the modern world you need at least a few 3rd party messenger apps, your bank's app and maybe a few more. I think that this may be true for convenient operation, but not for operating period. I have none of these apps on my phone and, in fact, don't regularly use my phone for anything but receiving calls and listening to audiobooks. (Oh, and alarms, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting; but not otherwise for interacting with the outside world.)
    - mojuba 7y ago
      I've tried that. All things aside, in business if there's even one important person you deal with (your investor?) you will have to install at least one of the messengers they use. It's a question of the balance of power. And you'd likely end up having more than one VIP in your contact list anyway, unless you live a totally isolated life.
      - JadeNB 7y ago
        That's a good point—in academia, we're a lot more tolerant of technologically backwards folk like me.
  - bdcravens 7y ago
    You don't think Apple gathers analytics?
otachack 7y ago
Sounds like you didn't configure it to what you wanted. You can turn off the motion detection and just listen for door bell presses instead. Mine runs off the battery instead of hooking to a power line so I had to disable most of the features so that the battery would last longer than a month. If you are remotely concerned about handing data to a 3rd party then I would just not use this doorbell. You can probably find a "dumber" one or construct one yourself. I might end up doing it, too, tbh.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  Well, despite the implication I’m just “didn’t do it right” I adjusted every possible feature in the app. The whole thing is garbage. I won’t apologize for Ring being a bad product while this and every other related article supports that they take ownership and share your data without your approval.
rudedogg 7y ago
Having the same issue with the motion detection. It’s so bad.. it’s been a few years since I used it, but I think the motion zones UI on my cheap Foscam security camera was way better. It blows my mind that they cost so much, the company has so much money, and it works so poorly. Mine was a gift otherwise I’d have returned it too.

ActorNightly 7y ago

Ring doesn't upload data unless you pay for a cloud storage account. You could argue that the doorbell transmits the video/audio over the internet, but that transport is encrypted to the Ring app, and its deleted off of AWS after its viewed on the App. If you really want privacy, you should also return your cellphone and go back to using a flip phone.

Rooster61 7y ago
> and its deleted off of AWS after its viewed on the App How do you know this? And how are you sure that information isn't shared before being deleted? Also, it's not only about privacy (although I do think people should care a bit more about it than they do on average). Data stored and sold makes money that is dependent on you to produce, yet you get no compensation for it. Many people have a problem with that, including myself.
- ActorNightly 7y ago
  > How do you know this? And how are you sure that information isn't shared before being deleted? Ring states it on their website. https://shop.ring.com/pages/privacy https://shop.ring.com/pages/privacy I mean, nobody REALLY knows, but if that's the standard you are going to use, then you pretty much have to assume that any company can and will spy on you, and apply the same critique to them. Based on reports and news, Amazon has been perhaps the best out of the big companies when dealing with privacy, as they are fairly transparent on the data they collect for what use, and had not had any major cases of leaks despite them perhaps having the best data set of peoples behavior with shopping history which is the most relevant to advertisers. Being that Ring uses AWS for back end, as can be verified through network traffic inspection, I personally don't see any red flags with them saying they delete the data. >Data stored and sold makes money that is dependent on you to produce, yet you get no compensation for it. This is HORRIBLY wrong. Gmail, youtube, reddit and most everything that is free on the web and on mobile is your compensation for your data. Yes, companies make profit, but they still spend that advertising revenue on hosting and maintaining that service, and recouping the initial investment they put into building the thing.
  - Rooster61 7y ago
    > I mean, nobody REALLY knows, but if that's the standard you are going to use, then you pretty much have to assume that any company can and will spy on you, and apply the same critique to them. That is the standard I use and I do apply the same critique to every company. > Gmail, youtube, reddit and most everything that is free on the web and on mobile is your compensation for your data. First off, I don't use all of those services. According to your logic, you and every other person who has data in their system and is not using a service is owed cold hard cash. Secondly, the value that I get out of using them is not commensurate with the profit they are making. These companies are making EXORBITANT amounts of money off of peoples data. It is in no way acceptable compensation. Third, I can't opt out of them using the data, even if I stop using a service or if I never used their service at all.
    - ActorNightly 7y ago
      >That is the standard I use and I do apply the same critique to every company. Then why are you on HN? They could be collecting your IP and data on you. >First off, I don't use all of those services. According to your logic, you and every other person who has data in their system and is not using a service is owed cold hard cash. The only data that exists for people that don't use services is 3p tracking data, which is from people visiting websites, that are supported by ads. So yes, if you view content on a website and a tracking cookie or pixel records you, that is you using the website, and the advertiser is paying the host for this which allows the host to continue hosing the website. > These companies are making EXORBITANT amounts of money off of peoples data Whoa, this is like almost a communism argument. Dictating how much money anyone should make is not a good road to go down on. There is nothing wrong with companies generating profit, they are capitalizing on supply versus demand.
  - heavyset_go 7y ago
    > Based on reports and news, Amazon has been perhaps the best out of the big companies when dealing with privacy They pitch their Ring doorbells as a surveillance network to police departments, provide law enforcement with an easy to use interface and map of their camera network, and allow police to go after people who choose not to share their recordings without a warrant. With a warrant or subpeona, all police have to do is serve it to Amazon, and the company can hand over your recordings without ever letting you know.
mojuba 7y ago
> If you really want privacy, you should also return your cellphone and go back to using a flip phone. Or how about an iPhone with minimal or no 3rd party apps? Which is practically impossible unfortunately because in order operate in the modern world you need at least a few 3rd party messenger apps, your bank's app and maybe a few more. Theoretically, however, I can have a phone free from social platforms and 3rd party analytics platforms like MixPanel or AppsFlyer, with regard to whom I have absolute zero trust.
- JadeNB 7y ago
  > Which is practically impossible unfortunately because in order operate in the modern world you need at least a few 3rd party messenger apps, your bank's app and maybe a few more. I think that this may be true for convenient operation, but not for operating period. I have none of these apps on my phone and, in fact, don't regularly use my phone for anything but receiving calls and listening to audiobooks. (Oh, and alarms, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting; but not otherwise for interacting with the outside world.)
  - mojuba 7y ago
    I've tried that. All things aside, in business if there's even one important person you deal with (your investor?) you will have to install at least one of the messengers they use. It's a question of the balance of power. And you'd likely end up having more than one VIP in your contact list anyway, unless you live a totally isolated life.
    - JadeNB 7y ago
      That's a good point—in academia, we're a lot more tolerant of technologically backwards folk like me.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  You don't think Apple gathers analytics?

otachack 7y ago

Sounds like you didn't configure it to what you wanted. You can turn off the motion detection and just listen for door bell presses instead. Mine runs off the battery instead of hooking to a power line so I had to disable most of the features so that the battery would last longer than a month. If you are remotely concerned about handing data to a 3rd party then I would just not use this doorbell. You can probably find a "dumber" one or construct one yourself. I might end up doing it, too, tbh.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Well, despite the implication I’m just “didn’t do it right” I adjusted every possible feature in the app. The whole thing is garbage. I won’t apologize for Ring being a bad product while this and every other related article supports that they take ownership and share your data without your approval.

rudedogg 7y ago

Having the same issue with the motion detection. It’s so bad.. it’s been a few years since I used it, but I think the motion zones UI on my cheap Foscam security camera was way better. It blows my mind that they cost so much, the company has so much money, and it works so poorly. Mine was a gift otherwise I’d have returned it too.