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First, you know that CSAIL is not the media lab, right? Secondly, there’s nothing gimmicky about CSAIL. Perhaps nerds sitting around writing code or proving lem

First, you know that CSAIL is not the media lab, right? Secondly, there’s nothing gimmicky about CSAIL. Perhaps nerds sitting around writing code or proving lemmas on a whiteboard isn’t so “cool” to look at as a high schooler, but that doesn’t mean it’s isn’t an exciting place when you’re old enough, knowledgeable enough, and creative enough to enjoy it.

ip26 7y ago
Ah, so your parent was just too young, dumb, and boring to appreciate the magic. Subtle.
- gugagore 7y ago
  well, no. It's just that what exactly does one expect to see at a research lab? I don't think any scientific research would appear exciting if you had a glimpse of it on a tour. The exciting things happen at different timescales! I mean, this is literally one of the major problems grad students face. It's a big change from school before, where you get a per-assignment or at least semesterly signal about whether you're doing the "right" thing. Whereas an entire grad student career (or more tragically, an entire academic career) could lead to nothing exciting, just a bunch of "that didn't work". Which is still progress for the research community, but not something that's exciting. I won't say there's absolutely nothing gimmicky about CSAIL. Maybe the parent was more sophisticated than the tour's target demographic. But I also question how much depth someone's perspective could have if it's based on a tour they got in high school.
Glyptodon 7y ago
First, yes I know CSAIL and the media lab are different. Second, it's quite conceivable actual (interesting) research things were and are happening in CSAIL. To clarify, since this apparently was not obvious: What I am saying is that basically whatever research and interesting things were being done was pretty much hidden behind a dog and pony show (and some robots and bragging about whatever architect designed the building), and that the marketing front was too slick and central for its own good. It didn't come across as a place for "hackers" (in the MIT sense, though they mentioned "hacking" plenty of times to tout the school) or even just as a place for someone who might want to learn about AI. Instead it came across as a place with a lot of resource for the marketing budget. (So the impression that things at MIT might be the result of unusually successful marketing more than anything else doesn't surprise me.) Seeing more whiteboards and coding would have helped, honestly.
- azinman2 7y ago
  CSAIL and the Media Lab are very different places, with different funding sources and ways of interacting with the broader community. There’s also some friction between the two. So to rope it all together is your incorrect outsider impression. My guess is most high schoolers probably do want to see fancy buildings and robots. There’s no beakers with smoke or explosions (hopefully) happening in a computer science department, so it sounds like they’re doing what they think is their best to appeal to a younger audience. I’m sorry it wasn’t the right marketing message for you, but if you wanted to understand at a deeper level what they were doing there’s no lack of information on the department webpage if you go explore the actual research groups and papers. From my perspective, MIT truly is an amazing and special place filled with fabulous minds and ample resources. But it’s not for everyone.
  - Glyptodon 7y ago
    ...I really hesitated to reply to your latest post but: I was a high school kid with dial up internet that I had to ask permission to use and computer time that was rationed (not trying to portray this as a hardship - it wasn't). While I was the one kid in my class who enjoyed programming a graphing calculator, it's not like I was super "internet native," and liking programming already didn't mean that I knew it was computer science, or that it would have occurred to me to presume I shouldn't take the way things were presented at face value. I was a somewhat sheltered kid. The point that MIT had a pretty significant marketing angle doesn't seem like it should be that wild. Even (what I think is) your website is pretty marketing-centric: > "My work has been used by millions in 185+ countries, been shown in over 7 musueums world-wide, and has been covered by PBS, NPR, BBC, The Alantic, and more." ...and I'm not trying to say that MIT hasn't done groundbreaking research. Also from (what I think is) your website: > "I've been on a computer daily since I received my first Mac at age 5 in 1986." Keep in mind that that's not common, or at least wasn't, even into the 2000s.
    - azinman2 7y ago
      I don't understand your points then. You being sheltered or not has no bearing on lumping together CSAIL & ML, nor does it mean that CSAIL has the right or wrong marketing to high schoolers. Clearly they take in a lot of students every year, so it can't be all wrong. I'm sorry it wasn't done in an appealing way to you, and maybe they're missing others. Regardless, whomever is doing that is (for better or worse) quite distant to the actual researchers and professors. Of course my personal website about my professional work is marketing. What's wrong with that? It's all true. It's important to market yourself, whether you're a biologist seeking grants, a philosopher seeking impact, or a university department seeking stature. That's how the world works. You need to tell people why they should care about you, otherwise you're just a forgotten soul in a world with billions of souls. That I've used a computer since the early 80s wasn't common I think is a good thing, despite being made fun of for it all throughout my childhood. I think it has framed many of my perspectives in life, including an ultimate desire to get a PhD from the Media Lab and attend MIT. How is any of this relevant here?

ip26 7y ago

Ah, so your parent was just too young, dumb, and boring to appreciate the magic. Subtle.

gugagore 7y ago
well, no. It's just that what exactly does one expect to see at a research lab? I don't think any scientific research would appear exciting if you had a glimpse of it on a tour. The exciting things happen at different timescales! I mean, this is literally one of the major problems grad students face. It's a big change from school before, where you get a per-assignment or at least semesterly signal about whether you're doing the "right" thing. Whereas an entire grad student career (or more tragically, an entire academic career) could lead to nothing exciting, just a bunch of "that didn't work". Which is still progress for the research community, but not something that's exciting. I won't say there's absolutely nothing gimmicky about CSAIL. Maybe the parent was more sophisticated than the tour's target demographic. But I also question how much depth someone's perspective could have if it's based on a tour they got in high school.

Glyptodon 7y ago

First, yes I know CSAIL and the media lab are different. Second, it's quite conceivable actual (interesting) research things were and are happening in CSAIL. To clarify, since this apparently was not obvious: What I am saying is that basically whatever research and interesting things were being done was pretty much hidden behind a dog and pony show (and some robots and bragging about whatever architect designed the building), and that the marketing front was too slick and central for its own good. It didn't come across as a place for "hackers" (in the MIT sense, though they mentioned "hacking" plenty of times to tout the school) or even just as a place for someone who might want to learn about AI. Instead it came across as a place with a lot of resource for the marketing budget. (So the impression that things at MIT might be the result of unusually successful marketing more than anything else doesn't surprise me.) Seeing more whiteboards and coding would have helped, honestly.

azinman2 7y ago
CSAIL and the Media Lab are very different places, with different funding sources and ways of interacting with the broader community. There’s also some friction between the two. So to rope it all together is your incorrect outsider impression. My guess is most high schoolers probably do want to see fancy buildings and robots. There’s no beakers with smoke or explosions (hopefully) happening in a computer science department, so it sounds like they’re doing what they think is their best to appeal to a younger audience. I’m sorry it wasn’t the right marketing message for you, but if you wanted to understand at a deeper level what they were doing there’s no lack of information on the department webpage if you go explore the actual research groups and papers. From my perspective, MIT truly is an amazing and special place filled with fabulous minds and ample resources. But it’s not for everyone.
- Glyptodon 7y ago
  ...I really hesitated to reply to your latest post but: I was a high school kid with dial up internet that I had to ask permission to use and computer time that was rationed (not trying to portray this as a hardship - it wasn't). While I was the one kid in my class who enjoyed programming a graphing calculator, it's not like I was super "internet native," and liking programming already didn't mean that I knew it was computer science, or that it would have occurred to me to presume I shouldn't take the way things were presented at face value. I was a somewhat sheltered kid. The point that MIT had a pretty significant marketing angle doesn't seem like it should be that wild. Even (what I think is) your website is pretty marketing-centric: > "My work has been used by millions in 185+ countries, been shown in over 7 musueums world-wide, and has been covered by PBS, NPR, BBC, The Alantic, and more." ...and I'm not trying to say that MIT hasn't done groundbreaking research. Also from (what I think is) your website: > "I've been on a computer daily since I received my first Mac at age 5 in 1986." Keep in mind that that's not common, or at least wasn't, even into the 2000s.
  - azinman2 7y ago
    I don't understand your points then. You being sheltered or not has no bearing on lumping together CSAIL & ML, nor does it mean that CSAIL has the right or wrong marketing to high schoolers. Clearly they take in a lot of students every year, so it can't be all wrong. I'm sorry it wasn't done in an appealing way to you, and maybe they're missing others. Regardless, whomever is doing that is (for better or worse) quite distant to the actual researchers and professors. Of course my personal website about my professional work is marketing. What's wrong with that? It's all true. It's important to market yourself, whether you're a biologist seeking grants, a philosopher seeking impact, or a university department seeking stature. That's how the world works. You need to tell people why they should care about you, otherwise you're just a forgotten soul in a world with billions of souls. That I've used a computer since the early 80s wasn't common I think is a good thing, despite being made fun of for it all throughout my childhood. I think it has framed many of my perspectives in life, including an ultimate desire to get a PhD from the Media Lab and attend MIT. How is any of this relevant here?