3 ms·

I'm curious why iPad Pro and not Surface, which from my (admittedly limited) use has always had digitizer responsiveness and functionality at the same level, wi

I'm curious why iPad Pro and not Surface, which from my (admittedly limited) use has always had digitizer responsiveness and functionality at the same level, with the benefit of also being a computer with all the normal software workflow and hotkeys.

derefr 7y ago
From what I recall of the blogosphere reaction when the iPad Pro first came out, I think it having a 120Hz refresh rate had a lot to do with it. Not sure if the Surface has since caught up, but the generation of the Surface out at the iPad Pro’s release wasn’t nearly as responsive-feeling.
neighbour 7y ago
Many digital artists I know had numerous problems with Surface products. Many shipped with severe backlight bleed and returning it for a new one didn't help because they all had the same issue.
fatbird 7y ago
I've tested both and, as of a few years ago, the Surface was still laggier than the Apple Pencil on an iPad Pro. I bought the pro and a pencil just for digital drawing/painting, and any perceivable lag is a killer. I'd been waiting decades for something like this.
hug 7y ago
Late to the party, but the answer is almost certainly just ProCreate. ProCreate (according to my girlfriend, who has a degree in illustration) is absolutely second to none with regards to completely eliminating the friction from digital painting. The toolset & UI/UX feel like someone who had used Photoshop with a Wacom tablet for 10 years took everything they liked about interacting with Photoshop and got it right, and everything they hated about Photoshop and fixed it. The app itself is absurdly responsive on a 2018 iPad Pro. I don't know if you saw the Hobbit in the theatres when everyone was freaking out about the frame rate because it felt too fast? It's like that, but enjoyable. Every other app on my iPad seems sluggish in comparison, and I don't even know how. (And don't get me started with comparing it to Photoshop, even on a ridiculously beefy machine with a 144Hz display.)
- eugeniub 7y ago
  This doesn’t explain why people are using either iPad Pro or Wacom + Photoshop but eschewing Surface + Photoshop.
  - hug 7y ago
    Because if you want a device for art on the go, you want ProCreate, which means not a Surface. (The fact that the iPad Pro has a better screen in every measurable way doesn’t hurt either.) If you want something with the grunt to handle a big photoshop project, you generally don’t want a Surface, you want a proper workstation. Using a Surface is the worst of both worlds, only really useful if you’re beholden to doing things in that way for some other reason, like it needs to be photoshop for interop reasons with other businesses, and it needs to be done on location.
  - Cixelyn 7y ago
    According to our creative director, the Surface’s digitizer is significantly worse than the Wacom one. iirc the first generation Surface licensed Wacom technologies, but in subsequent generations Microsoft switched to their in-house nTrig which they got through an acquisition. In fact the Wacom is better by a large large enough margin that she’s willing to forgo using the (reasonably well-designed) Surface for the bastard child of a laptop that is the Wacom Cintiq Mobile Studio Pro 13.
  - raindropm 7y ago
    From my personal experience as illustrator, I found the Apple pencil design and weight is much better for drawing than the surface pen with the tip, and yes, what I hold in my hand effect how I draw significantly. Also, I found that iOS is just built for touch from the group up, unlike Windows, and when combined with well-designed app like Procreate, it just made every interaction with the screen with your hand and Pencil when you drawing so smooth and natural. It's just mind blown for us who draw for living. It just do one thing we want really, really well. Before iPad and Apple Pencil comes, the closest thing to draw directly on screen is the uber-expensive Wacom Cintiq, which mostly used by studio and serious professional rather than individual. Windows and Photoshop on touch device is quite usable for drawing. I'd say, it is much better than in the past. But once in a while you'll end up running into some software quirk and lagging experience, miniscule menu to click on, some part of software that didn't design for touch, etc., not to mention that Photoshop is ultra-ultra bloated software. It never natural to work on it. Anyway, I understand why people that's not into the art field didn't see the use of iPad much. It's still a big iPhone to many people, and yes, its file manager and multitasking is garbage.
sirn 7y ago
Surface Pro as of few years ago has a horrible jitter and much larger latency than iPad or Wacom tablets (search for Surface Pro jitter should yield plenty of examples). It has gotten better in the past few generations and with better stablization in software updates, but many artists I know still avoid N-Trig pen. Wacom has MobileStudio that runs Windows, but it also come with heating issues.
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  Bit of a shame, since the Surface Pro original had a Wacom digitizer. It was v2 they switched to N-Trig and v2 or v3 they had Penny Arcade publicising how bad it was.

derefr 7y ago

From what I recall of the blogosphere reaction when the iPad Pro first came out, I think it having a 120Hz refresh rate had a lot to do with it. Not sure if the Surface has since caught up, but the generation of the Surface out at the iPad Pro’s release wasn’t nearly as responsive-feeling.

neighbour 7y ago

Many digital artists I know had numerous problems with Surface products. Many shipped with severe backlight bleed and returning it for a new one didn't help because they all had the same issue.

fatbird 7y ago

I've tested both and, as of a few years ago, the Surface was still laggier than the Apple Pencil on an iPad Pro. I bought the pro and a pencil just for digital drawing/painting, and any perceivable lag is a killer. I'd been waiting decades for something like this.

hug 7y ago

Late to the party, but the answer is almost certainly just ProCreate. ProCreate (according to my girlfriend, who has a degree in illustration) is absolutely second to none with regards to completely eliminating the friction from digital painting. The toolset & UI/UX feel like someone who had used Photoshop with a Wacom tablet for 10 years took everything they liked about interacting with Photoshop and got it right, and everything they hated about Photoshop and fixed it. The app itself is absurdly responsive on a 2018 iPad Pro. I don't know if you saw the Hobbit in the theatres when everyone was freaking out about the frame rate because it felt too fast? It's like that, but enjoyable. Every other app on my iPad seems sluggish in comparison, and I don't even know how. (And don't get me started with comparing it to Photoshop, even on a ridiculously beefy machine with a 144Hz display.)

eugeniub 7y ago
This doesn’t explain why people are using either iPad Pro or Wacom + Photoshop but eschewing Surface + Photoshop.
- hug 7y ago
  Because if you want a device for art on the go, you want ProCreate, which means not a Surface. (The fact that the iPad Pro has a better screen in every measurable way doesn’t hurt either.) If you want something with the grunt to handle a big photoshop project, you generally don’t want a Surface, you want a proper workstation. Using a Surface is the worst of both worlds, only really useful if you’re beholden to doing things in that way for some other reason, like it needs to be photoshop for interop reasons with other businesses, and it needs to be done on location.
- Cixelyn 7y ago
  According to our creative director, the Surface’s digitizer is significantly worse than the Wacom one. iirc the first generation Surface licensed Wacom technologies, but in subsequent generations Microsoft switched to their in-house nTrig which they got through an acquisition. In fact the Wacom is better by a large large enough margin that she’s willing to forgo using the (reasonably well-designed) Surface for the bastard child of a laptop that is the Wacom Cintiq Mobile Studio Pro 13.
- raindropm 7y ago
  From my personal experience as illustrator, I found the Apple pencil design and weight is much better for drawing than the surface pen with the tip, and yes, what I hold in my hand effect how I draw significantly. Also, I found that iOS is just built for touch from the group up, unlike Windows, and when combined with well-designed app like Procreate, it just made every interaction with the screen with your hand and Pencil when you drawing so smooth and natural. It's just mind blown for us who draw for living. It just do one thing we want really, really well. Before iPad and Apple Pencil comes, the closest thing to draw directly on screen is the uber-expensive Wacom Cintiq, which mostly used by studio and serious professional rather than individual. Windows and Photoshop on touch device is quite usable for drawing. I'd say, it is much better than in the past. But once in a while you'll end up running into some software quirk and lagging experience, miniscule menu to click on, some part of software that didn't design for touch, etc., not to mention that Photoshop is ultra-ultra bloated software. It never natural to work on it. Anyway, I understand why people that's not into the art field didn't see the use of iPad much. It's still a big iPhone to many people, and yes, its file manager and multitasking is garbage.

sirn 7y ago

Surface Pro as of few years ago has a horrible jitter and much larger latency than iPad or Wacom tablets (search for Surface Pro jitter should yield plenty of examples). It has gotten better in the past few generations and with better stablization in software updates, but many artists I know still avoid N-Trig pen. Wacom has MobileStudio that runs Windows, but it also come with heating issues.

jodrellblank 7y ago
Bit of a shame, since the Surface Pro original had a Wacom digitizer. It was v2 they switched to N-Trig and v2 or v3 they had Penny Arcade publicising how bad it was.