4 ms·

The cheapest professional machines run into $50K unit prices. A RepRap will set you back under $1K, but it's not very useful at the moment.

by iwwr 16y ago

StavrosK 16y ago
Why not? What are the differences?
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Generally, those from the engineering community sneer at the MakerBot and the RepRap. Just listen for the word "tolerances." Now, they're totally right: the home printers have a significantly lower resolution than the professional ones. But unless you're making professional grade parts, you probably don't care, and they use the same materials. (I'm assuming you're making the comparison to other FDM machines.)
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    Assuming the tolerances for the cheap 3D printers will improve, isn't this a classic case of disruption we are seeing here? Sure they aren't great enough for everything yet, but there has to be things you can create even with the cheap bots that are good enough to be useful.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Oh yeah, totally, on both counts.
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    Ah, that makes sense. However, it sounds very good for the price.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Oh totally. It's like the state of the art in the 80s, or something. And they're rapidly improving. I'm excited to see what happens as the patents in this space expire. I'm expecting it to be similar to what happened with steam engines.
      - StavrosK 16y ago
        I expect it to be similar to what happened with the printing press and computers in that you'll be able to download (/pirate) actual objects. The revolution will be huge.
        iwwr 16y ago
        You wouldn't download a car, would you?
        StavrosK 16y ago
        I'd definitely download a policeman's helmet.
        nickpinkston 16y ago
        Too late - someone did: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/11/first-3d-printed-car-hits-the-road.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/11/first-3d-printed-car...
        DanI-S 16y ago
        I'm looking forward to my open source kitchen utensils!
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        No need to look forward: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1111 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1111
        khafra 16y ago
steveklabnik 16y ago
This isn't true, by the way. The uPrints start at $14,900 now: http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-uprint.aspx http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-upr... I'm also assuming that you're talking about FDM, like the MakerBot/RepRap. If you're talking about a different process, well, then it's different.
- iwwr 16y ago
  Thanks, prices appear to be falling steadily.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Yep. It's pretty crazy: part prices are actually almost tracking Moore's Law. There are also newer processes that are much more expensive. If you're checking out something like an Objet machine, or something like EBM, you're still going to be looking at an upper 5 figures to a mid 6.
bobds 16y ago
They come a lot cheaper than that. The biggest cost is the proprietary materials they use, I'm guessing it would easily add up to more than the cost of the printer over time. Servicing costs should also be pretty high. I've compiled a list of most cheap printers (slightly out of date, I am going to add more soon): http://punkmanufacturing.com/wiki/ http://punkmanufacturing.com/wiki/ As far as usefulness, the open-source printers are not that different from the cheap commercial machines. A well-tuned RepRap should have comparable accuracy. The printing materials are a lot cheaper, as well as the parts (which you can print) and servicing costs. The commercial printers have better resolution, better materials and better software, at least at the moment, but I think that's going to change.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Most of those materials are reverse engineer-able, though. This has a significant impact on the big manufacturer's bottom lines... they derive most of their profit from materials, just like regular printers. I'll just leave this here: http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/ http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/ Specifically: http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2009/10/plaster-based-powder/ http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2009/10/plaster-based-powde... See how cheap that is? Crazy...
  - bobds 16y ago
    You can probably get a spec-sheet for their proprietary materials if you ask. You might have to reverse-engineer cartridges with security features though. The Fab@Home guys are trying out various different materials, since their syringe-based extruder allows more flexibility than the RepRap. http://fabathome.org/wiki/index.php/Fab%40Home:Materials http://fabathome.org/wiki/index.php/Fab%40Home:Materials As far as cheap materials go, it doesn't get much cheaper than garbage plastic. http://reprap.org/wiki/Recycler http://reprap.org/wiki/Recycler
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      > You can probably get a spec-sheet for their proprietary materials if you ask. Or you could just go here (this is my old startup): http://marketplace.cloudfab.com/fab_facts http://marketplace.cloudfab.com/fab_facts (click through for every datasheet on every machine and material)

The cheapest professional machines run into $50K unit prices. A RepRap will set you back under $1K, but it's not very useful at the moment.

by iwwr 16y ago

The cheapest professional machines run into $50K unit prices. A RepRap will set you back under $1K, but it's not very useful at the moment.

StavrosK 16y ago

Why not? What are the differences?

steveklabnik 16y ago
Generally, those from the engineering community sneer at the MakerBot and the RepRap. Just listen for the word "tolerances." Now, they're totally right: the home printers have a significantly lower resolution than the professional ones. But unless you're making professional grade parts, you probably don't care, and they use the same materials. (I'm assuming you're making the comparison to other FDM machines.)
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Assuming the tolerances for the cheap 3D printers will improve, isn't this a classic case of disruption we are seeing here? Sure they aren't great enough for everything yet, but there has to be things you can create even with the cheap bots that are good enough to be useful.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Oh yeah, totally, on both counts.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  Ah, that makes sense. However, it sounds very good for the price.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Oh totally. It's like the state of the art in the 80s, or something. And they're rapidly improving. I'm excited to see what happens as the patents in this space expire. I'm expecting it to be similar to what happened with steam engines.
    - StavrosK 16y ago
      I expect it to be similar to what happened with the printing press and computers in that you'll be able to download (/pirate) actual objects. The revolution will be huge.
      - iwwr 16y ago
        You wouldn't download a car, would you?
        StavrosK 16y ago
        I'd definitely download a policeman's helmet.
        nickpinkston 16y ago
        Too late - someone did: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/11/first-3d-printed-car-hits-the-road.php http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/11/first-3d-printed-car...
      - DanI-S 16y ago
        I'm looking forward to my open source kitchen utensils!
        steveklabnik 16y ago
        No need to look forward: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1111 http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1111
      - khafra 16y ago

steveklabnik 16y ago

This isn't true, by the way. The uPrints start at $14,900 now: http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-uprint.aspx http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-upr... I'm also assuming that you're talking about FDM, like the MakerBot/RepRap. If you're talking about a different process, well, then it's different.

iwwr 16y ago
Thanks, prices appear to be falling steadily.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Yep. It's pretty crazy: part prices are actually almost tracking Moore's Law. There are also newer processes that are much more expensive. If you're checking out something like an Objet machine, or something like EBM, you're still going to be looking at an upper 5 figures to a mid 6.

bobds 16y ago

They come a lot cheaper than that. The biggest cost is the proprietary materials they use, I'm guessing it would easily add up to more than the cost of the printer over time. Servicing costs should also be pretty high. I've compiled a list of most cheap printers (slightly out of date, I am going to add more soon): http://punkmanufacturing.com/wiki/ http://punkmanufacturing.com/wiki/ As far as usefulness, the open-source printers are not that different from the cheap commercial machines. A well-tuned RepRap should have comparable accuracy. The printing materials are a lot cheaper, as well as the parts (which you can print) and servicing costs. The commercial printers have better resolution, better materials and better software, at least at the moment, but I think that's going to change.

steveklabnik 16y ago
Most of those materials are reverse engineer-able, though. This has a significant impact on the big manufacturer's bottom lines... they derive most of their profit from materials, just like regular printers. I'll just leave this here: http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/ http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/ Specifically: http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2009/10/plaster-based-powder/ http://open3dp.me.washington.edu/2009/10/plaster-based-powde... See how cheap that is? Crazy...
- bobds 16y ago
  You can probably get a spec-sheet for their proprietary materials if you ask. You might have to reverse-engineer cartridges with security features though. The Fab@Home guys are trying out various different materials, since their syringe-based extruder allows more flexibility than the RepRap. http://fabathome.org/wiki/index.php/Fab%40Home:Materials http://fabathome.org/wiki/index.php/Fab%40Home:Materials As far as cheap materials go, it doesn't get much cheaper than garbage plastic. http://reprap.org/wiki/Recycler http://reprap.org/wiki/Recycler
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    > You can probably get a spec-sheet for their proprietary materials if you ask. Or you could just go here (this is my old startup): http://marketplace.cloudfab.com/fab_facts http://marketplace.cloudfab.com/fab_facts (click through for every datasheet on every machine and material)