5 ms·

> The worst thing is that the forced over-simplification of the UI features did not make it easier to use for beginners. I believe Gruber argues completely the

by acqq 7y ago

> The worst thing is that the forced over-simplification of the UI features did not make it easier to use for beginners. I believe Gruber argues completely the opposite: that the recent changes to add features like split screen make it more confusing (e.g. the example of his mother getting stuck in the split screen and calling him). He continues in the very article we comment here (emphasis mine): "if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-drop interface I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has its own name, I wish I could install the iPhone’s one-app-on-screen-at-a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. I’d do it in a heartbeat and be much happier for it." And I think that should be a configurable accessibility option: to have UI completely discoverable and non-stuckable, even if some "so-called-Pro" features need more steps (or can't be implemented). Or even better and safer: that should be the default, with "advanced" shortcuts as an opt-in option. The interface should by default to never bring users to the point where they can remain "stuck" in some mode from which they can't get out. Steve Jobs understood that that 100% "discoverability" and "non stuckiness" must be the default UI, that's why Gruber would like to switch back to that older ideal. And Steve Jobs was old enough to learn that much earlier: that the "modes" are bad and that good UI doesn't require one to do some magic to switch between them, as it can be summarized in the joke: "How to Quit Vim and Exit the VI Editor — the most popular Stack Overflow question -- and I'm using vi last two years because I can't figure out how to exit it." Even these "visual" UI changes that made the UI more "Ive-conform" (removing buttons and having only text) made the UI more confusing for anybody not trained and retrained. The back "button" in the apps was drawn as a button when Jobs controlled the UI. Then it got to be switched to just the < sign, which those who don't frequently use the UI never understand to be anything more than a meaningless symbol on the screen.

Phenix88be 7y ago
> And Steve Jobs was old enough to learn that much earlier: that the "modes" are bad and that good UI doesn't require one to do some magic to switch between them, as it can be summarized in the joke: "How to Quit Vim and Exit the VI Editor — the most popular Stack Overflow question -- and I'm using vi last two years because I can't figure out how to exit it." The more a software do, the less it's user friendly... You can't really compare Vi, a text editor that need training to master by technician, and the IpadOS. They are not made for the same people.
- slipheen 7y ago
  The File, Edit, etc menus on macOS are much more clear interface than most applications I've used on the iPad. macOS is undeniably more powerful - It's the truck versus the sports car in the analogy. But macOS is much much more straightforward and easy to use. I have far fewer things that I just have to memorize.
- majewsky 7y ago
  I would argue that vi(m) is more user-friendly by being more upfront about its learning curve.
  - adamsea 7y ago
    I think that is different from being “user friendly”, where “user friendly” means “the UI for this application is as intuitive as we could make it do that a wide range of nontechnical users are able to comfortably use this application with a minimum of formal instruction.”
  - CarlRJ 7y ago
    Vi(m) favors “easy to use” over “easy to learn” - which is the right tradeoff for a tool that one can use for hours a day for decades. Though I always liked the line, “Vi is user-friendly - it’s just picky about who its friends are”. (BTW, “ZZ” is usually the right answer to quitting/exiting - still funny to see, decades on, people teaching “:wq<return>”.)
    - iudqnolq 7y ago
      Thank you. I just learned I've been exiting vim wrong for years.
akg_67 7y ago
+1 I still haven’t figured out how to get split screen reliably and every time. But I don’t find a need for split screen either. A few times, I tried I had to google how to get split screen then I gave up. Also, sometime I automagically get split screen and can’t figure out how to get rid of it. Usually land up just closing apps in split screen and restarting apps.
- zaphoyd 7y ago
  I love and use split screen all the time on my iPad for a variety of use cases. Even though I love the feature and find it really useful all of the UI constraints related to it are totally true. I would never want the feature removed, but the existing UI for it is beyond maddening.
- lloeki 7y ago
  Two extremely useful use cases of mine: - drawing in Procreate with reference material in the split. - learning a song by singing + playing it on the guitar with chords and lyrics displayed, with it playing in Music† at the same time (on repeat + seek readily accessible)†† † I find it infuriating that no other music app than Music has considered split a possibility. †† I'm aware there's a "Play" thing in Ultimate Guitar but it's absolute crap, playing a YouTube version that often doesn't match, obscures the sheet with a PIP, and is terrible to make repeat/seek. This is a perfect use case of functional composability using split screen.
- Brave-Steak 7y ago
  I use my iPad Pro in splitscreen almost exclusively. Probably because I mainly use it for notetaking and research, instead of as just an entertainment device. That said, the usability of multitasking has for some reason become far worse on iPads since iOS 11 and I'm still waiting for them to do anything to improve it. I still can't believe it's in the state it is now, years later.
  - bosie 7y ago
    Is this the 13" or the 11" version you have?
thoughtsimple 7y ago
"if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-drop interface I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has its own name, I wish I could install the iPhone’s one-app-on-screen-at-a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. I’d do it in a heartbeat and be much happier for it." Weirdly there is just a setting and it is strange that Gruber doesn’t know about it. Settings->HomeScreen & Dock->Multitasking->Allow Multiple Apps “Drag applications from the Dock or Home screen to create Split View and Slide Over apps. Swipe from the right edge to reveal your last Slide Over app.”
- js2 7y ago
  I like multiple apps except for in Safari, where I semi-regularly accidentally activate slide-over by dragging a link when I'm trying to scroll a page. Getting out of this mode is a pain in the ass, because AFAIK, you have to drag the slide over into split-screen mode before in order to close it. Anyway, in desperation I turned off multi-tasking, but it doesn't disable the drag-link-to-create-slide-over-behavior. Instead it becomes even worse because the dragged link replaces the previous window. Even worse, you can't click the Back button to get back where you were. Doubly-even-worse, Safari's history is and has been broken for a long time... not every link you've visited is in the history, titles don't match the page you were on, etc. Anyway, whatever the hell Apple did to Safari as part of iPad OS... I hate it. edit: I didn't realize there was a slide-over-switcher you can activate and then from there swipe-up to kill the slide-over you don't want. Still a PITA. https://www.imore.com/how-use-slide-over-and-split-view-ipad-ios-11 https://www.imore.com/how-use-slide-over-and-split-view-ipad...
icebraining 7y ago
Not just Steve Jobs: the development of the Apple Newton (arguably the precursor to the iPad) was in part led by Larry "NO MODES" Tesler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler http://www.nomodes.com/ http://www.nomodes.com/
- acqq 7y ago
  Yes! Thanks! "Primary inventor of modeless editing and cut, copy, paste." http://www.nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/CV_files/NOMODES.jpg http://www.nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/CV_files/NOMO... Since cca 1973. Reference: doi:10.1145/2212877.2212896
- Stratoscope 7y ago
  Here is Larry's 1981 BYTE article about modes, complete with a "DON'T MODE ME IN" T-shirt made by a mutual friend: https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-08/page/n103/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-08/page/n103/...
  - acqq 7y ago
    Thank you. It's a big article, it starts on the page 90 and ends on 147(!) there. Also, the article is from 1981 and Tesler already works for Apple, as seen on the first page. To compare with the article date, Apple Lisa was released January 19, 1983 (and, by the way, Macintosh January 1984, iPhone January 2007, iPad January 2010 -- Jobs certainly had a system).

by acqq 7y ago

Phenix88be 7y ago

> And Steve Jobs was old enough to learn that much earlier: that the "modes" are bad and that good UI doesn't require one to do some magic to switch between them, as it can be summarized in the joke: "How to Quit Vim and Exit the VI Editor — the most popular Stack Overflow question -- and I'm using vi last two years because I can't figure out how to exit it." The more a software do, the less it's user friendly... You can't really compare Vi, a text editor that need training to master by technician, and the IpadOS. They are not made for the same people.

slipheen 7y ago
The File, Edit, etc menus on macOS are much more clear interface than most applications I've used on the iPad. macOS is undeniably more powerful - It's the truck versus the sports car in the analogy. But macOS is much much more straightforward and easy to use. I have far fewer things that I just have to memorize.
majewsky 7y ago
I would argue that vi(m) is more user-friendly by being more upfront about its learning curve.
- adamsea 7y ago
  I think that is different from being “user friendly”, where “user friendly” means “the UI for this application is as intuitive as we could make it do that a wide range of nontechnical users are able to comfortably use this application with a minimum of formal instruction.”
- CarlRJ 7y ago
  Vi(m) favors “easy to use” over “easy to learn” - which is the right tradeoff for a tool that one can use for hours a day for decades. Though I always liked the line, “Vi is user-friendly - it’s just picky about who its friends are”. (BTW, “ZZ” is usually the right answer to quitting/exiting - still funny to see, decades on, people teaching “:wq<return>”.)
  - iudqnolq 7y ago
    Thank you. I just learned I've been exiting vim wrong for years.

akg_67 7y ago

+1 I still haven’t figured out how to get split screen reliably and every time. But I don’t find a need for split screen either. A few times, I tried I had to google how to get split screen then I gave up. Also, sometime I automagically get split screen and can’t figure out how to get rid of it. Usually land up just closing apps in split screen and restarting apps.

zaphoyd 7y ago
I love and use split screen all the time on my iPad for a variety of use cases. Even though I love the feature and find it really useful all of the UI constraints related to it are totally true. I would never want the feature removed, but the existing UI for it is beyond maddening.
lloeki 7y ago
Two extremely useful use cases of mine: - drawing in Procreate with reference material in the split. - learning a song by singing + playing it on the guitar with chords and lyrics displayed, with it playing in Music† at the same time (on repeat + seek readily accessible)†† † I find it infuriating that no other music app than Music has considered split a possibility. †† I'm aware there's a "Play" thing in Ultimate Guitar but it's absolute crap, playing a YouTube version that often doesn't match, obscures the sheet with a PIP, and is terrible to make repeat/seek. This is a perfect use case of functional composability using split screen.
Brave-Steak 7y ago
I use my iPad Pro in splitscreen almost exclusively. Probably because I mainly use it for notetaking and research, instead of as just an entertainment device. That said, the usability of multitasking has for some reason become far worse on iPads since iOS 11 and I'm still waiting for them to do anything to improve it. I still can't believe it's in the state it is now, years later.
- bosie 7y ago
  Is this the 13" or the 11" version you have?

thoughtsimple 7y ago

"if I could go back to the pre-split-screen, pre-drag-and-drop interface I would. Which is to say, now that iPadOS has its own name, I wish I could install the iPhone’s one-app-on-screen-at-a-time, no-drag-and-drop iOS on my iPad Pro. I’d do it in a heartbeat and be much happier for it." Weirdly there is just a setting and it is strange that Gruber doesn’t know about it. Settings->HomeScreen & Dock->Multitasking->Allow Multiple Apps “Drag applications from the Dock or Home screen to create Split View and Slide Over apps. Swipe from the right edge to reveal your last Slide Over app.”

js2 7y ago
I like multiple apps except for in Safari, where I semi-regularly accidentally activate slide-over by dragging a link when I'm trying to scroll a page. Getting out of this mode is a pain in the ass, because AFAIK, you have to drag the slide over into split-screen mode before in order to close it. Anyway, in desperation I turned off multi-tasking, but it doesn't disable the drag-link-to-create-slide-over-behavior. Instead it becomes even worse because the dragged link replaces the previous window. Even worse, you can't click the Back button to get back where you were. Doubly-even-worse, Safari's history is and has been broken for a long time... not every link you've visited is in the history, titles don't match the page you were on, etc. Anyway, whatever the hell Apple did to Safari as part of iPad OS... I hate it. edit: I didn't realize there was a slide-over-switcher you can activate and then from there swipe-up to kill the slide-over you don't want. Still a PITA. https://www.imore.com/how-use-slide-over-and-split-view-ipad-ios-11 https://www.imore.com/how-use-slide-over-and-split-view-ipad...

icebraining 7y ago

Not just Steve Jobs: the development of the Apple Newton (arguably the precursor to the iPad) was in part led by Larry "NO MODES" Tesler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tesler http://www.nomodes.com/ http://www.nomodes.com/

acqq 7y ago
Yes! Thanks! "Primary inventor of modeless editing and cut, copy, paste." http://www.nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/CV_files/NOMODES.jpg http://www.nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/CV_files/NOMO... Since cca 1973. Reference: doi:10.1145/2212877.2212896
Stratoscope 7y ago
Here is Larry's 1981 BYTE article about modes, complete with a "DON'T MODE ME IN" T-shirt made by a mutual friend: https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-08/page/n103/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1981-08/page/n103/...
- acqq 7y ago
  Thank you. It's a big article, it starts on the page 90 and ends on 147(!) there. Also, the article is from 1981 and Tesler already works for Apple, as seen on the first page. To compare with the article date, Apple Lisa was released January 19, 1983 (and, by the way, Macintosh January 1984, iPhone January 2007, iPad January 2010 -- Jobs certainly had a system).