6 ms·

Oh man particularly from the 110 to the 5 south - that one lane change - there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, only

Oh man particularly from the 110 to the 5 south - that one lane change - there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, only to get stuck, and cause a massive hangup. That line of cars is ~30 long, so 1 in 10 is perfectly high enough for it to be broken all the time.

romwell 7y ago
>there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, Ahem... he's the one that actually knows what a zipper merge is, and you are the one who needs to learn a thing today. There is no line in the zipper merge. You are supposed to merge at the very end to keep the traffic flowing, like a zipper would. Read up, and don't be that guy: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm (Unless you are talking about something else entirely, but the parent comments were talking about this scenario)
- wwweston 7y ago
  The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zipper merge, zooms as quickly as possible to the last merge point, and then either cuts in without having negotiated a corresponding gap (causing the traffic column in the thru-lane to brake dramatically) or ends up having to slow/stop until an opportunity presents itself (causing a build-up in the ending lane). Or maybe even the latter and then the former. So, yes, there is "no line" in the zipper merge. There are two lines. And yes, you are supposed to merge at the very end. But if that's where the thinking/behavior stops, then the parent is right to complain. Drivers who are not matching speed before the merge point are not doing a zipper merge.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. It’s less than ideal 10% of the time, but 90% of the time it’s the inevitable result of too many cars.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      They match speed here... that speed is stopped.
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Yes, stopping is pretty much inevitable after a certain density of cars has been reached. In an ideal situation, where all cars have the same acceleration and deceleration, drivers are aware and allow zipper merging and don't tailgate, it would happen more smoothly. But that isn't the world we live in, so at the end of the day, the simplest rule is to use as much lane as possible and take turns merging.
    - wwweston 7y ago
      > In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. I see these conditions frequently in LA. Either two merging lanes are highly congested in which case they are moving at roughly the same speed anyway, or there's one congested lane and one less dense lane. The latter case shows up at almost every onramp when traffic gets thick, so it's pretty common. It doesn't take any special skills to negotiate well: accelerate to the speed of thru traffic and proceed to the end of the lane looking for a gap to match with. If you feel like it or just don't want the people behind you who don't understand this to feel impatient, accelerate to maybe an additional 30% above matched speed, then slow down to matched speed and look for a gap as the end of the lane gets close. Every once in a while you see the reverse situation, where for some reason the merging lane is thick and the thru lane is moving at speed. That is indeed a really difficult situation. Thankfully it's rarer. > The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. Right. While matching speed.
- erulabs 7y ago
  Sorry, to be clear, if you don't know that road, the person is breaking the law and driving over a very very large shoulder. They cross into a slashed white zone. You're absolutely right otherwise, but in this case, it's one very wide lane for some reason, and so people try to shoot around each other, causing chaos. If it was two lanes it would be fine, but it's a weird overpass / junction madness. I didn't mean "that one weird lane change", I meant "that weird one-lane change", heh.

romwell 7y ago

>there is _always_ one person go tries to skip the line and merge at the very end, Ahem... he's the one that actually knows what a zipper merge is, and you are the one who needs to learn a thing today. There is no line in the zipper merge. You are supposed to merge at the very end to keep the traffic flowing, like a zipper would. Read up, and don't be that guy: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm https://auto.howstuffworks.com/traffic-lane-zipper-merge.htm (Unless you are talking about something else entirely, but the parent comments were talking about this scenario)

wwweston 7y ago
The benefits of zipper merge don't materialize fully unless merging lanes match speed approaching the merge point. The parent is likely talking about situations like those presented where a relatively less dense (and ending) lane is merging into a fully-loaded thru-lane, and the traffic in the relatively less dense lane, rather than matching speed and finding the tooth-gap correspondence that's implied in the name zipper merge, zooms as quickly as possible to the last merge point, and then either cuts in without having negotiated a corresponding gap (causing the traffic column in the thru-lane to brake dramatically) or ends up having to slow/stop until an opportunity presents itself (causing a build-up in the ending lane). Or maybe even the latter and then the former. So, yes, there is "no line" in the zipper merge. There are two lines. And yes, you are supposed to merge at the very end. But if that's where the thinking/behavior stops, then the parent is right to complain. Drivers who are not matching speed before the merge point are not doing a zipper merge.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. It’s less than ideal 10% of the time, but 90% of the time it’s the inevitable result of too many cars.
  - cortesoft 7y ago
    They match speed here... that speed is stopped.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Yes, stopping is pretty much inevitable after a certain density of cars has been reached. In an ideal situation, where all cars have the same acceleration and deceleration, drivers are aware and allow zipper merging and don't tailgate, it would happen more smoothly. But that isn't the world we live in, so at the end of the day, the simplest rule is to use as much lane as possible and take turns merging.
  - wwweston 7y ago
    > In times of congestion, the conditions rarely exists for very long which would allow both lanes to match speed before the merge point. I see these conditions frequently in LA. Either two merging lanes are highly congested in which case they are moving at roughly the same speed anyway, or there's one congested lane and one less dense lane. The latter case shows up at almost every onramp when traffic gets thick, so it's pretty common. It doesn't take any special skills to negotiate well: accelerate to the speed of thru traffic and proceed to the end of the lane looking for a gap to match with. If you feel like it or just don't want the people behind you who don't understand this to feel impatient, accelerate to maybe an additional 30% above matched speed, then slow down to matched speed and look for a gap as the end of the lane gets close. Every once in a while you see the reverse situation, where for some reason the merging lane is thick and the thru lane is moving at speed. That is indeed a really difficult situation. Thankfully it's rarer. > The simplest rule is to use as much road as possible. Right. While matching speed.
erulabs 7y ago
Sorry, to be clear, if you don't know that road, the person is breaking the law and driving over a very very large shoulder. They cross into a slashed white zone. You're absolutely right otherwise, but in this case, it's one very wide lane for some reason, and so people try to shoot around each other, causing chaos. If it was two lanes it would be fine, but it's a weird overpass / junction madness. I didn't mean "that one weird lane change", I meant "that weird one-lane change", heh.