4 ms·

Re: had you been using VB best practices. Everybody had a different opinion about what those were. Things that look obvious in hindsight weren't. Re: While wi

by tabtab 7y ago

Re: had you been using VB best practices. Everybody had a different opinion about what those were. Things that look obvious in hindsight weren't. Re: While with hindsight we mostly all agree "webforms" was a bad idea Do you mean in general or early versions? It seems a git-er-done platform for smallish apps without the fuss and muss of MVC. Our Webforms group is more productive than our MVC group. If MVC pays off in the distant future, nobody can really tell yet. Our MVC stack is poorly tuned, but that's the problem with MVC: it requires decent oversight. MVC typically can have more JavaScript eye-candy to dazzle, but I'm not sure it's worth it from a raw productivity standpoint. The org is paying a toy tax.

WorldMaker 7y ago
I'd like to think "don't use global variables", "try not to use global modules, prefer classes", and "goto considered harmful" are relatively universal best practices that were espoused as far back as VB1, as I recall, very little hindsight needed for the best practices I was particularly thinking of. I mean every version of Webforms. Webforms is entirely dead in 2020. There's no support in .NET 5. It's not surprising that your Webforms group seems more productive, and MVC more "poorly tuned", as both are common misperceptions, and performance and web standards/best practices continue to show MVC better aligned with today's standards and performance than Webforms ever could be. (It's also related to why it isn't surprising some of the Webforms fans are busy building Rube Goldberg machines in Blazor today to replace their lost love.)
- tabtab 7y ago
  I didn't use very many global variables in my VB-classic. I'm not sure what you mean. And, what's a "global module"? Re: "Webforms is entirely dead in 2020. There's no support in .NET 5." Deprecated, yes, dead no. MS announced no plans to stop basic maintenance. Even ASP Classic still runs on IIS (upon configuration adjustments). I'm not necessarily saying using deprecated products is "good", only that Web Forms programmers seem to get more done in average for typical custom CRUD apps. It looks like productivity is being shot in the head to keep Future Compliant. Re: "and web standards/best practices continue to show MVC better aligned with today's standards and performance than Webforms ever could be." What is "better aligned with..." exactly? I'm not claiming Web Forms is "web scale". I'm just saying use a Chevy instead of Maserati if you don't actually need a Maserati because Maserati's are expensive and high maintenance. Too many want to stick every buzzword in their stack to keep their resume HR-bot-match-compatible. It's fraud in my opinion. I would note the needs of CRUD are different than the needs of "web" in the CMS-ish sense. MS stacks of late seem to try to cater to both, and it makes for unnecessary complexity. I think they should split and have a CRUD-friendly stack different from a CMS-ish stack.

by tabtab 7y ago

WorldMaker 7y ago

I'd like to think "don't use global variables", "try not to use global modules, prefer classes", and "goto considered harmful" are relatively universal best practices that were espoused as far back as VB1, as I recall, very little hindsight needed for the best practices I was particularly thinking of. I mean every version of Webforms. Webforms is entirely dead in 2020. There's no support in .NET 5. It's not surprising that your Webforms group seems more productive, and MVC more "poorly tuned", as both are common misperceptions, and performance and web standards/best practices continue to show MVC better aligned with today's standards and performance than Webforms ever could be. (It's also related to why it isn't surprising some of the Webforms fans are busy building Rube Goldberg machines in Blazor today to replace their lost love.)

tabtab 7y ago
I didn't use very many global variables in my VB-classic. I'm not sure what you mean. And, what's a "global module"? Re: "Webforms is entirely dead in 2020. There's no support in .NET 5." Deprecated, yes, dead no. MS announced no plans to stop basic maintenance. Even ASP Classic still runs on IIS (upon configuration adjustments). I'm not necessarily saying using deprecated products is "good", only that Web Forms programmers seem to get more done in average for typical custom CRUD apps. It looks like productivity is being shot in the head to keep Future Compliant. Re: "and web standards/best practices continue to show MVC better aligned with today's standards and performance than Webforms ever could be." What is "better aligned with..." exactly? I'm not claiming Web Forms is "web scale". I'm just saying use a Chevy instead of Maserati if you don't actually need a Maserati because Maserati's are expensive and high maintenance. Too many want to stick every buzzword in their stack to keep their resume HR-bot-match-compatible. It's fraud in my opinion. I would note the needs of CRUD are different than the needs of "web" in the CMS-ish sense. MS stacks of late seem to try to cater to both, and it makes for unnecessary complexity. I think they should split and have a CRUD-friendly stack different from a CMS-ish stack.