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How long do the balloons remain aloft? I wonder how practical a balloon-based emergency communications relay could work after a natural disaster. While high-a

by mikece 7y ago

How long do the balloons remain aloft? I wonder how practical a balloon-based emergency communications relay could work after a natural disaster. While high-altitude, long-endurance (HALE) drones carrying communications relays make more sense in some cases, a balloon-based system in a box with it's own helium bottle could be deployed by easily and quickly when needed... but if it's only good for 20 minutes then maybe it's not such a good idea.

mdszy 7y ago
Ours stayed aloft for about 2-3 hours when I did a launch with my college ham radio club! I can't remember exactly. It got up to ~60,000ft and then the balloon burst, quickly falling back down. We didn't have much of a parachute, so a larger parachute could've slowed the descent greatly. I'm not sure what the laws are about size of parachute/any required descent rates though.
- mikece 7y ago
  Does it make sense to have dual balloons: one smaller one designed to burst at a target altitude (eg: 100,000 feet) and the other, more durable balloon, meant to provide a very slow descent, much slower a parachute? That could extend endurance aloft to several hours.
  - mdszy 7y ago
    That sounds reasonable to me. Again, not sure as to the regulations around that, if you're allowed to use a balloon that doesn't burst at any point or anything. Also, realistic bursting altitude is closer to ~60,000ft for most balloons, just FYI.
- sizzzzlerz 7y ago
  So did your chute slow the payload down enough to keep it from being damaged? Do you need insurance against it coming down on someone or their property?
  - mdszy 7y ago
    1. Yes, but we also made sure that our payload was properly protected. Basically, it was a paint can with foam inside and the payload stuffed into the foam. It definitely didn't slow it down TOO much and without proper protection, the payload would have likely been destroyed. Also, the foam was necessary for thermal reasons too, the electronics needed to stay warm enough to operate when ambient temperature is -100F. 2. We didn't purchase any specifically, but given we were an official campus organization, we would have likely gone through them had something like that happened. Given the rural area we were launching from, and where we knew it would travel, the likelihood of this happening is close enough to 0 that we didn't have to worry.
bmgxyz 7y ago
You'd probably want to tether the balloon somehow. A balloon I worked on stayed aloft for about two hours, but in that time it traveled about 100 miles. Even then, when it was above the horizon we could hear it with our equipment on the ground. I should note that the balloon only came down because it was designed to burst at a certain altitude and return under a parachute. Other designs that are meant for long or indefinite missions can last for weeks. As I understand it, other than lifting gas leakage the main limiting factors are energy (solved with solar panels, batteries, and smart usage) and balloon integrity under bright sunlight. As for quick deployment, perhaps there are ways to do it, but it took our (admittedly inexperienced) team of 15 or so about an hour to string up our payloads, fill the balloon to the right volume, and release it. Lots of fun, though.
dylan604 7y ago
It totally depends on what type of balloon launch you want. There are balloons that are designed to burst when the external atmospheric pressure reduces to the point the gas in the balloon expands past the bursting point. That's somewhere in the ~90,000 foot altitude. That's when the parachute you (hopefully) attached allows the payload to float back down safely. Lifting a helium tank would require a very large balloon. Larger than the single helium tank could fill on its own. These tanks are very heavy.
- mikece 7y ago
  The idea isn't that the balloon would hoist a tank but that a ready-made kit has the balloon, gear, and helium tank to inflate and launch the gear. The tank would stay behind for recycling/reuse.
  - dylan604 7y ago
    Ahh, I mis-read the meaning. However, the size of the tank of Helium would make this kit very expensive (if even possible) to ship. The more practical solution would be to have a working relationship with a company like AirGas or similar company so that the kit would include the payment for the tank of helium that could be picked up at a location near/local to them. This would still make it a very practical kit and a good idea. It took several hours of looking online for local locations to purchase our gas, so including the pre-paid coupon would be a big plus. Especially for groups that might do this one time only.

by mikece 7y ago

mdszy 7y ago

Ours stayed aloft for about 2-3 hours when I did a launch with my college ham radio club! I can't remember exactly. It got up to ~60,000ft and then the balloon burst, quickly falling back down. We didn't have much of a parachute, so a larger parachute could've slowed the descent greatly. I'm not sure what the laws are about size of parachute/any required descent rates though.

mikece 7y ago
Does it make sense to have dual balloons: one smaller one designed to burst at a target altitude (eg: 100,000 feet) and the other, more durable balloon, meant to provide a very slow descent, much slower a parachute? That could extend endurance aloft to several hours.
- mdszy 7y ago
  That sounds reasonable to me. Again, not sure as to the regulations around that, if you're allowed to use a balloon that doesn't burst at any point or anything. Also, realistic bursting altitude is closer to ~60,000ft for most balloons, just FYI.
sizzzzlerz 7y ago
So did your chute slow the payload down enough to keep it from being damaged? Do you need insurance against it coming down on someone or their property?
- mdszy 7y ago
  1. Yes, but we also made sure that our payload was properly protected. Basically, it was a paint can with foam inside and the payload stuffed into the foam. It definitely didn't slow it down TOO much and without proper protection, the payload would have likely been destroyed. Also, the foam was necessary for thermal reasons too, the electronics needed to stay warm enough to operate when ambient temperature is -100F. 2. We didn't purchase any specifically, but given we were an official campus organization, we would have likely gone through them had something like that happened. Given the rural area we were launching from, and where we knew it would travel, the likelihood of this happening is close enough to 0 that we didn't have to worry.

bmgxyz 7y ago

You'd probably want to tether the balloon somehow. A balloon I worked on stayed aloft for about two hours, but in that time it traveled about 100 miles. Even then, when it was above the horizon we could hear it with our equipment on the ground. I should note that the balloon only came down because it was designed to burst at a certain altitude and return under a parachute. Other designs that are meant for long or indefinite missions can last for weeks. As I understand it, other than lifting gas leakage the main limiting factors are energy (solved with solar panels, batteries, and smart usage) and balloon integrity under bright sunlight. As for quick deployment, perhaps there are ways to do it, but it took our (admittedly inexperienced) team of 15 or so about an hour to string up our payloads, fill the balloon to the right volume, and release it. Lots of fun, though.

dylan604 7y ago

It totally depends on what type of balloon launch you want. There are balloons that are designed to burst when the external atmospheric pressure reduces to the point the gas in the balloon expands past the bursting point. That's somewhere in the ~90,000 foot altitude. That's when the parachute you (hopefully) attached allows the payload to float back down safely. Lifting a helium tank would require a very large balloon. Larger than the single helium tank could fill on its own. These tanks are very heavy.

mikece 7y ago
The idea isn't that the balloon would hoist a tank but that a ready-made kit has the balloon, gear, and helium tank to inflate and launch the gear. The tank would stay behind for recycling/reuse.
- dylan604 7y ago
  Ahh, I mis-read the meaning. However, the size of the tank of Helium would make this kit very expensive (if even possible) to ship. The more practical solution would be to have a working relationship with a company like AirGas or similar company so that the kit would include the payment for the tank of helium that could be picked up at a location near/local to them. This would still make it a very practical kit and a good idea. It took several hours of looking online for local locations to purchase our gas, so including the pre-paid coupon would be a big plus. Especially for groups that might do this one time only.