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IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemiti

by slim 7y ago

IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemitic is bad faith.

ealexhudson 7y ago
I suspect the care put into the message was more to ensure that this specific example would look reasonable on its own. When set in the context of the site it's posted on, and the other sites associated with the author (e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN), it looks more like a pattern of quite targeted harassment. I personally have no skin in this game, but if the message was censored from the list I would give the listmasters the benefit of the doubt that this was due to the author of the e-mail rather than the content per se.
- slim 7y ago
  This is a (probably not intentional) ad-hominem
- pytester 7y ago
  Wirt said "I did not wanted to say its antisemetic, I wanted to say that we don't want to see either antisemetic _or_ antiisrelism" (sic) Deleting messages that express specifically anti-semitic views is anti-racist. Deleting messages that express specifically anti-state views, where that state imposes racial apartheid, is explicitly pro-racist. This was the latter.
- s_dev 7y ago
  >(e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN) A single other submission (an article on the Berlin Wall) and two comments relating to said article consitutes a HN posting history? I'm not seeing anti-semitism here but I am seeing censorship.
  - benjf 7y ago
    #1 rule of censorship: don't talk about censorship. Or they will spread rumours that people have been secretly banned from Debian.
  - XMPPwocky 7y ago
    If you click through and read the article, it has nothing to do with the Berlin Wall.
- benjf 7y ago
  You try to smear the author to avoid the real issues. If a Debian Developer or a member of any other voluntary non-profit group asks about governance standards, that is not what you call targeted harassment, that is simply being a good citizen. We need more people like this who speak truth to power.
mjw1007 7y ago
If the message was silently censored, there's no reason to believe that the list manager is claiming that it was antisemitic. Here's another possible explanation: maybe the message was posted by an individual who is generally banned from Debian mailing lists. Come to that, maybe the same individual is the author of all the articles on the oddly-anonymous "Debian Community News" site.
- yasserarafat 7y ago
  Banning the person would be an even more extreme form of censorship, it is abusive. It is like banning the Palestinians from travel, they have to get a visa to go anywhere because of Israel.

by slim 7y ago

IMHO the carefulness that was put in writing that message make it impossible to interpret it as antisemitic or bad faith. Actually interpreting it as antisemitic is bad faith.

ealexhudson 7y ago

I suspect the care put into the message was more to ensure that this specific example would look reasonable on its own. When set in the context of the site it's posted on, and the other sites associated with the author (e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN), it looks more like a pattern of quite targeted harassment. I personally have no skin in this game, but if the message was censored from the list I would give the listmasters the benefit of the doubt that this was due to the author of the e-mail rather than the content per se.

slim 7y ago
This is a (probably not intentional) ad-hominem
pytester 7y ago
Wirt said "I did not wanted to say its antisemetic, I wanted to say that we don't want to see either antisemetic _or_ antiisrelism" (sic) Deleting messages that express specifically anti-semitic views is anti-racist. Deleting messages that express specifically anti-state views, where that state imposes racial apartheid, is explicitly pro-racist. This was the latter.
s_dev 7y ago
>(e.g. fsfesicherheit's other postings to HN) A single other submission (an article on the Berlin Wall) and two comments relating to said article consitutes a HN posting history? I'm not seeing anti-semitism here but I am seeing censorship.
- benjf 7y ago
  #1 rule of censorship: don't talk about censorship. Or they will spread rumours that people have been secretly banned from Debian.
- XMPPwocky 7y ago
  If you click through and read the article, it has nothing to do with the Berlin Wall.
benjf 7y ago
You try to smear the author to avoid the real issues. If a Debian Developer or a member of any other voluntary non-profit group asks about governance standards, that is not what you call targeted harassment, that is simply being a good citizen. We need more people like this who speak truth to power.

mjw1007 7y ago

If the message was silently censored, there's no reason to believe that the list manager is claiming that it was antisemitic. Here's another possible explanation: maybe the message was posted by an individual who is generally banned from Debian mailing lists. Come to that, maybe the same individual is the author of all the articles on the oddly-anonymous "Debian Community News" site.

yasserarafat 7y ago
Banning the person would be an even more extreme form of censorship, it is abusive. It is like banning the Palestinians from travel, they have to get a visa to go anywhere because of Israel.