8 ms·

This is good for Bitcoin. /s

tgsovlerkhgsel 7y ago
Surprisingly, all cryptos (including BTG) seem to be going up. Normally a 51% attack on any somewhat-known cryptocurrency pushes the price down. This kinda confirms that BTG being not just susceptible to 51% attacks but also getting hit by them isn't a surprise to anyone. Edit to add: For anyone not familiar with the space, Bitcoin Gold is one of the many forks of the main Bitcoin blockchain, and one of the least meaningful among the ones commonly known. Here's the map of the main forks: https://i.redd.it/1pvmr98w5x041.png https://i.redd.it/1pvmr98w5x041.png -- the main chain is by far the most known/popular/valuable, followed by Cash and SV in this order, followed by Gold far behind the rest. Useful metrics are value/market cap, number/size of exchanges supporting it, or hash power. Hash power roughly correlates with value. A main-chain Bitcoin (BTC) is worth about $8750 and basically the reserve currency of the crypto world (roughly all exchanges will have it), Bitcoin Cash (BCH) about $370 and has 400+ markets (that's as much as Coinmarketcap will show), Bitcoin SV (BSV) about $300 and 154 markets, Bitcoin Gold about $12 and 74 markets. Too lazy to count unique exchanges (an exchange can have multiple markets per coin). Edit: Exchange listing counts here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22161472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22161472
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Because most cryptos are traded in terms of BTC or ETH, if either of those two go up, virtually all other coins tend to rise as well. I haven't seen altcoins decoupled since 2017.
- derefr 7y ago
  I feel like every attack on these networks that goes from theoretical to real (or that gets demonstrated on increasingly larger scales), will actually tend to cause the market to get more bullish on the ecosystem as a whole. It’s a kind of de-risking—not in the sense that the particular blockchain, or blockchains in general, are now any less vulnerable to the attack (Sybil attacks generally are like the Halting Problem of open consensus systems—no real way around them) but rather that these attacks, for some investors, go from scary “unknown unknowns” to “known unknowns” that can be quantified in their impact, and thus ROI models can be clarified, making cryptocurrency’s value as an asset class more legible. Legible assets always have a place in a hybrid-strategy portfolio; while illegible assets (like illiquid real estate from the housing crash) almost never do. > basically the reserve currency of the crypto world (roughly all exchanges will have it) I would say that that’s more like either Monero or USDC right now: these are the cryptocurrencies people ask for when they just want cash but want to let you pay them in crypto, because you can cash out of crypto entirely in a non-value-losing way pretty well from either (with Monero, because it has low TX fees and fast processing times, so you can get rid of it in seconds; with USDC, because it’s stable-ish for now, so you don’t need to worry on a scale of minutes whether it’ll keep its value.) Which is similar to what “reserve currency” means in practice for most people (other than banks): it’s the currency they’d prefer to be paid in, and the currency you’ll see them trading in their own currency for in the event that their own currency experiences high volatility.
  - xiphias2 7y ago
    You are right, I remember talking to Bitcoin core and lightning network developers before the segwit/bitcoin cash fork. They were quite depressed as the social/marketing attacks on Bitcoin core were quite successful in hindering Bitcoin's development by a few years. At the same time as Bitcoin core won (by market share), now Bitcoin is a state where everybody accepts that Bitcoin won't have any hard forks in the future (even if it would be technically warranted). For many things change is a good thing, but for creating a new monetary system it's only good if it fixes a huge flaw in the previous one (unlimited money supply and limited international money flow in the case of the current financial system).
- lawlessone 7y ago
  >Surprisingly, all cryptos (including BTG) seem to be going up This might be because the "halvening" is this year. Also all stocks are down due to the corona virus. which is allegedly a reason bitcoin is high.
  - endorphone 7y ago
    There is zero rational basis for any movement in cryptocurrencies, and it was spiking at the same time that the normal stock market was hitting record highs. Rationally, bitcoin should be worth close to nothing.
    - lawlessone 7y ago
      you're probably right.
    - shawnz 7y ago
      You mean just like gold?
      - endorphone 7y ago
        Gold has intrinsic high value in an enormous number of processes, and is a physically very rare element with very novel properties. Cryptocurrency isn't remotely rare -- one can create a hundred Bitcoin clones in an afternoon -- and has zero fundamental value. It solves no real problem, and is worse at virtually everything than alternatives. The comparison with gold has always been specious. If a tiny, tiny fraction of holders of bitcoin liquidated to cash, it would be worth close to nothing overnight.
        shawnz 7y ago
        Gold's intrinsic value is obviously nowhere near its value on the market. Bitcoin does have some intrinsic value too as an international payments system, which like gold clearly is not the only driver of the price. Furthermore I don't see how you can compare the rarity of gold versus bitcoins. What makes one "more rare" or "less rare" than the other? Are we comparing grams to bits, or what? > If a tiny, tiny fraction of holders of bitcoin liquidated to cash, it would be worth close to nothing overnight. Being opposed to Bitcoin because you think it's too volatile is a totally different argument than "its value isn't defined intrinsically".
fabianfabian 7y ago
Well it is, any copy cat coin sharing the same hashing algorithm as Bitcoin has this risk. So stay away from shitcoins. Edit: I was wrong about BTG sharing the same algorithm.
- brokensegue 7y ago
  I don't think Bitcoin gold uses the same hash function as Bitcoin
  - latchkey 7y ago
    Correct, it uses equihash [1]. [1] https://bitcoingold.org/equihash-btg/ https://bitcoingold.org/equihash-btg/
- abstractbarista 7y ago
  I think it's more complicated than that. You'd need enough computing resources to "beat" half of the Bitcoin network's current hashrate, which is absolutely massive compared to BTG's. Oops: I see what you mean though. Because there's so many BTC miners, they can easily swap over to BTG to overwhelm the much smaller network.
  - martindale 7y ago
    This is part of the reason why it's most likely everything will converge on a single money. Currencies will be issued on top, rather than dividing the global effort.
- Tepix 7y ago
  Equihash is not SHA-256.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- consp 7y ago
  Every coin which uses the same proof of work method has this problem. It is independent of the actual hashing algorithm used. This is also not the first time this coin has been targeted.
mywittyname 7y ago
This is sarcasm, but it really is: with crypto, there's strength in numbers.
- Proven 7y ago
  That's right - hackers can't attack cryptos as fast as scammers can fork 'em and create ever new Ponzis

Surprisingly, all cryptos (including BTG) seem to be going up. Normally a 51% attack on any somewhat-known cryptocurrency pushes the price down. This kinda confirms that BTG being not just susceptible to 51% attacks but also getting hit by them isn't a surprise to anyone. Edit to add: For anyone not familiar with the space, Bitcoin Gold is one of the many forks of the main Bitcoin blockchain, and one of the least meaningful among the ones commonly known. Here's the map of the main forks: https://i.redd.it/1pvmr98w5x041.png https://i.redd.it/1pvmr98w5x041.png -- the main chain is by far the most known/popular/valuable, followed by Cash and SV in this order, followed by Gold far behind the rest. Useful metrics are value/market cap, number/size of exchanges supporting it, or hash power. Hash power roughly correlates with value. A main-chain Bitcoin (BTC) is worth about $8750 and basically the reserve currency of the crypto world (roughly all exchanges will have it), Bitcoin Cash (BCH) about $370 and has 400+ markets (that's as much as Coinmarketcap will show), Bitcoin SV (BSV) about $300 and 154 markets, Bitcoin Gold about $12 and 74 markets. Too lazy to count unique exchanges (an exchange can have multiple markets per coin). Edit: Exchange listing counts here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22161472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22161472

chrisco255 7y ago
Because most cryptos are traded in terms of BTC or ETH, if either of those two go up, virtually all other coins tend to rise as well. I haven't seen altcoins decoupled since 2017.
derefr 7y ago
I feel like every attack on these networks that goes from theoretical to real (or that gets demonstrated on increasingly larger scales), will actually tend to cause the market to get more bullish on the ecosystem as a whole. It’s a kind of de-risking—not in the sense that the particular blockchain, or blockchains in general, are now any less vulnerable to the attack (Sybil attacks generally are like the Halting Problem of open consensus systems—no real way around them) but rather that these attacks, for some investors, go from scary “unknown unknowns” to “known unknowns” that can be quantified in their impact, and thus ROI models can be clarified, making cryptocurrency’s value as an asset class more legible. Legible assets always have a place in a hybrid-strategy portfolio; while illegible assets (like illiquid real estate from the housing crash) almost never do. > basically the reserve currency of the crypto world (roughly all exchanges will have it) I would say that that’s more like either Monero or USDC right now: these are the cryptocurrencies people ask for when they just want cash but want to let you pay them in crypto, because you can cash out of crypto entirely in a non-value-losing way pretty well from either (with Monero, because it has low TX fees and fast processing times, so you can get rid of it in seconds; with USDC, because it’s stable-ish for now, so you don’t need to worry on a scale of minutes whether it’ll keep its value.) Which is similar to what “reserve currency” means in practice for most people (other than banks): it’s the currency they’d prefer to be paid in, and the currency you’ll see them trading in their own currency for in the event that their own currency experiences high volatility.
- xiphias2 7y ago
  You are right, I remember talking to Bitcoin core and lightning network developers before the segwit/bitcoin cash fork. They were quite depressed as the social/marketing attacks on Bitcoin core were quite successful in hindering Bitcoin's development by a few years. At the same time as Bitcoin core won (by market share), now Bitcoin is a state where everybody accepts that Bitcoin won't have any hard forks in the future (even if it would be technically warranted). For many things change is a good thing, but for creating a new monetary system it's only good if it fixes a huge flaw in the previous one (unlimited money supply and limited international money flow in the case of the current financial system).
lawlessone 7y ago
>Surprisingly, all cryptos (including BTG) seem to be going up This might be because the "halvening" is this year. Also all stocks are down due to the corona virus. which is allegedly a reason bitcoin is high.
- endorphone 7y ago
  There is zero rational basis for any movement in cryptocurrencies, and it was spiking at the same time that the normal stock market was hitting record highs. Rationally, bitcoin should be worth close to nothing.
  - lawlessone 7y ago
    you're probably right.
  - shawnz 7y ago
    You mean just like gold?
    - endorphone 7y ago
      Gold has intrinsic high value in an enormous number of processes, and is a physically very rare element with very novel properties. Cryptocurrency isn't remotely rare -- one can create a hundred Bitcoin clones in an afternoon -- and has zero fundamental value. It solves no real problem, and is worse at virtually everything than alternatives. The comparison with gold has always been specious. If a tiny, tiny fraction of holders of bitcoin liquidated to cash, it would be worth close to nothing overnight.
      - shawnz 7y ago
        Gold's intrinsic value is obviously nowhere near its value on the market. Bitcoin does have some intrinsic value too as an international payments system, which like gold clearly is not the only driver of the price. Furthermore I don't see how you can compare the rarity of gold versus bitcoins. What makes one "more rare" or "less rare" than the other? Are we comparing grams to bits, or what? > If a tiny, tiny fraction of holders of bitcoin liquidated to cash, it would be worth close to nothing overnight. Being opposed to Bitcoin because you think it's too volatile is a totally different argument than "its value isn't defined intrinsically".

fabianfabian 7y ago

Well it is, any copy cat coin sharing the same hashing algorithm as Bitcoin has this risk. So stay away from shitcoins. Edit: I was wrong about BTG sharing the same algorithm.

brokensegue 7y ago
I don't think Bitcoin gold uses the same hash function as Bitcoin
- latchkey 7y ago
  Correct, it uses equihash [1]. [1] https://bitcoingold.org/equihash-btg/ https://bitcoingold.org/equihash-btg/
abstractbarista 7y ago
I think it's more complicated than that. You'd need enough computing resources to "beat" half of the Bitcoin network's current hashrate, which is absolutely massive compared to BTG's. Oops: I see what you mean though. Because there's so many BTC miners, they can easily swap over to BTG to overwhelm the much smaller network.
- martindale 7y ago
  This is part of the reason why it's most likely everything will converge on a single money. Currencies will be issued on top, rather than dividing the global effort.
Tepix 7y ago
Equihash is not SHA-256.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
consp 7y ago
Every coin which uses the same proof of work method has this problem. It is independent of the actual hashing algorithm used. This is also not the first time this coin has been targeted.

mywittyname 7y ago

This is sarcasm, but it really is: with crypto, there's strength in numbers.

Proven 7y ago
That's right - hackers can't attack cryptos as fast as scammers can fork 'em and create ever new Ponzis