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Are you sure Apple actually gave up yet? I thought they still have related activity following their recent acquisition of Drive.ai. If anyone, it could well be

Are you sure Apple actually gave up yet? I thought they still have related activity following their recent acquisition of Drive.ai. If anyone, it could well be Apple that can catch up with Tesla's self-driving capabilities. When it comes to Tesla, they might be sitting on better technology than it might seem at first glance. Although I'm not sure they'll manage in Europe, pedestrians and cyclists are more common and have better rights. Does Tesla get enough non-visual wavelength information from front sides, to avoid pedestrians and wild animals? Tesla's self-driving story could be cut short in Europe the first time the car kills a cyclist crossing the road in low visibility conditions, like during heavy snowfall. Can Tesla manage in low angle sunshine and snow or dirt on the cameras? Humans can shift their viewpoint, but cameras can't. This could be particularly difficult in North Europe. Some Asian markets like India and Vietnam could be difficult for them because of chaotic traffic systems. Addendum: If played "right", self-driving can be $100B+ business. I'd expect true poker hands to be only shown once time is right and legislation allows it.

blueprint 7y ago
> Humans can shift their viewpoint, but cameras can't. Seems easy enough to automate
JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
Having used Siri, my optimism about Apple AI and technology, above all other competitors, powering a car are not great. It’s significantly behind Google and Amazon on that front. Wouldn’t it be odd if they were suddenly the world leader in self-driving vehicles?
- kortilla 7y ago
  No. There is very little overlap in technology and definitely no overlap in the teams at all. Google’s instant messaging landscape is shit, but that doesn’t mean their email isn’t decent. And those two products have more overlap than self-driving cars and a voice assistant.
kace91 7y ago
>Are you sure Apple actually gave up yet? I thought they still have related activity following their recent acquisition of Drive.ai. Back when I was working in the field of VR, we were all fully convinced that apple was about to go enter the field with some huge breakthrough, since pretty much every niche product for vr devs was being bought as discretely as possible. It was really common to go to some website to find their software or manuals and find out it redirected to apple.com with no further explanation. Five years have passed since then with nothing to show up for... So I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't take investments as a sign of something cooking, at least not for giants like apple that can afford to spend millions "just in case"
- culturestate 7y ago
  > I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't take investments as a sign of something cooking Leaving aside acquihires, I think it's always a sign of something cooking. Apple just seems atypically content to let things simmer until they feel they've got a compelling product, and they aren't afraid to kill things that don't work. Sometimes it happens quickly; Fingerworks was acquired in 2005 and the iPhone was released in 2007. The AuthenTec acquisition closed in 2012, and Touch ID showed up in 2013. On the other side, you have acquisitions like PrimeSense. Apple bought them in 2013, and Face ID didn't show up until 2017.
- threeseed 7y ago
  Apple spent 5 years to develop the iPhone. So might need to be a little more patient given that self driving cars is quite a bit more involved.
Animats 7y ago
"and legislation allows it." That's Tesla's usual whine. Uber had the same complaint until they ran down a pedestrian. California's DMV is willing to license autonomous vehicles right now.[1] The manufacturer have to demonstrate that they work safely, and accept full responsibility for anything that goes wrong, of course. Some wannabe self-driving car companies have a problem with that. [1] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a6ea01e0-072f-4f93-aa6c-e12b844443cc/DriverlessAV_Adopted_Regulatory_Text.pdf?MOD=AJPERES https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a6ea01e0-072f-4f93...
Someone 7y ago
”Humans can shift their viewpoint, but cameras can't.” Humans have to shift their viewpoint; computers need not. I don’t think there’s agreement on what “attention” is, but I also think there is agreement that it exists. Computers, on the other hand, can be 100% attentive to as many locations as we want them to be (limited by costs, energy use, etc)
- vardump 7y ago
  This has nothing to do with attention. If the cameras' view is obscured by something, no amount of computing power will change that, unless some physical action can be taken. Most of the time a human can just shift head a bit to see past whatever is blocking the view. You do it all the time without even realizing. For example to see your phone's screen clearly when a reflection obstructs your view. Or to see behind whatever happens to be blocking your line of sight. The possible solutions for this are obvious: add more forward-facing cameras and augment with something that's not affected (for example radar, lidar, infrared, etc.). Adding some physical feature that gives the camera some degrees of freedom to move could work as well, although it does add expense and lowers reliability.
anthonybsd 7y ago
>If anyone, it could well be Apple that can catch up with Tesla's self-driving capabilities. Wait what? Tesla is not even in the top 3 of the autonomous pack. Why would Apple be trying to catch up to a distant 4th or 5th?
- october_sky 7y ago
  Who are in the top 3 then? I thought Tesla was leading, but I haven’t been following closet
  - anthonybsd 7y ago
    Probably these ones: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-top-3-companies-in-autonomous-vehicles-and-self-driving-cars/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-top-3-companies-in-autonom... Tesla is leading in marketing though, if that helps :)
  - MiroF 7y ago
    It's Waymo & Cruise far in the lead, although I don't know where some of the stealthier companies like Aurora are right now.
twic 7y ago
Who's working on self-driving cars in Europe then? I only know about a couple of groups of Cambridge nerds: https://five.ai/faq https://five.ai/faq https://wayve.ai/ https://wayve.ai/
- jpm_sd 7y ago
  https://www.oxbotica.com/ https://www.oxbotica.com/
- alicorn 7y ago
  Veoneer, but on other carmakers' products.
- orbifold 7y ago
  All the big German automakers are, as is Bosch.

blueprint 7y ago

> Humans can shift their viewpoint, but cameras can't. Seems easy enough to automate

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago

Having used Siri, my optimism about Apple AI and technology, above all other competitors, powering a car are not great. It’s significantly behind Google and Amazon on that front. Wouldn’t it be odd if they were suddenly the world leader in self-driving vehicles?

kortilla 7y ago
No. There is very little overlap in technology and definitely no overlap in the teams at all. Google’s instant messaging landscape is shit, but that doesn’t mean their email isn’t decent. And those two products have more overlap than self-driving cars and a voice assistant.

kace91 7y ago

>Are you sure Apple actually gave up yet? I thought they still have related activity following their recent acquisition of Drive.ai. Back when I was working in the field of VR, we were all fully convinced that apple was about to go enter the field with some huge breakthrough, since pretty much every niche product for vr devs was being bought as discretely as possible. It was really common to go to some website to find their software or manuals and find out it redirected to apple.com with no further explanation. Five years have passed since then with nothing to show up for... So I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't take investments as a sign of something cooking, at least not for giants like apple that can afford to spend millions "just in case"

culturestate 7y ago
> I guess the lesson is that you shouldn't take investments as a sign of something cooking Leaving aside acquihires, I think it's always a sign of something cooking. Apple just seems atypically content to let things simmer until they feel they've got a compelling product, and they aren't afraid to kill things that don't work. Sometimes it happens quickly; Fingerworks was acquired in 2005 and the iPhone was released in 2007. The AuthenTec acquisition closed in 2012, and Touch ID showed up in 2013. On the other side, you have acquisitions like PrimeSense. Apple bought them in 2013, and Face ID didn't show up until 2017.
threeseed 7y ago
Apple spent 5 years to develop the iPhone. So might need to be a little more patient given that self driving cars is quite a bit more involved.

Animats 7y ago

"and legislation allows it." That's Tesla's usual whine. Uber had the same complaint until they ran down a pedestrian. California's DMV is willing to license autonomous vehicles right now.[1] The manufacturer have to demonstrate that they work safely, and accept full responsibility for anything that goes wrong, of course. Some wannabe self-driving car companies have a problem with that. [1] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a6ea01e0-072f-4f93-aa6c-e12b844443cc/DriverlessAV_Adopted_Regulatory_Text.pdf?MOD=AJPERES https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/a6ea01e0-072f-4f93...

Someone 7y ago

”Humans can shift their viewpoint, but cameras can't.” Humans have to shift their viewpoint; computers need not. I don’t think there’s agreement on what “attention” is, but I also think there is agreement that it exists. Computers, on the other hand, can be 100% attentive to as many locations as we want them to be (limited by costs, energy use, etc)

vardump 7y ago
This has nothing to do with attention. If the cameras' view is obscured by something, no amount of computing power will change that, unless some physical action can be taken. Most of the time a human can just shift head a bit to see past whatever is blocking the view. You do it all the time without even realizing. For example to see your phone's screen clearly when a reflection obstructs your view. Or to see behind whatever happens to be blocking your line of sight. The possible solutions for this are obvious: add more forward-facing cameras and augment with something that's not affected (for example radar, lidar, infrared, etc.). Adding some physical feature that gives the camera some degrees of freedom to move could work as well, although it does add expense and lowers reliability.

anthonybsd 7y ago

>If anyone, it could well be Apple that can catch up with Tesla's self-driving capabilities. Wait what? Tesla is not even in the top 3 of the autonomous pack. Why would Apple be trying to catch up to a distant 4th or 5th?

october_sky 7y ago
Who are in the top 3 then? I thought Tesla was leading, but I haven’t been following closet
- anthonybsd 7y ago
  Probably these ones: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-top-3-companies-in-autonomous-vehicles-and-self-driving-cars/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-top-3-companies-in-autonom... Tesla is leading in marketing though, if that helps :)
- MiroF 7y ago
  It's Waymo & Cruise far in the lead, although I don't know where some of the stealthier companies like Aurora are right now.

twic 7y ago

Who's working on self-driving cars in Europe then? I only know about a couple of groups of Cambridge nerds: https://five.ai/faq https://five.ai/faq https://wayve.ai/ https://wayve.ai/

jpm_sd 7y ago
https://www.oxbotica.com/ https://www.oxbotica.com/
alicorn 7y ago
Veoneer, but on other carmakers' products.
orbifold 7y ago
All the big German automakers are, as is Bosch.